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Author Topic: Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??  (Read 2334 times)

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newgene87

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Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??
« on: November 05, 2011, 09:59:15 PM »

Okay another one which is a fairly easy concept for Me that is, to grasp, but Paul expounds between the righteousness of the law and the righteousness of faith. Okay, he gives something simple of the law, stating - "the man that does them shall live in them" and then when it comes to faith...he goes to the say not in heart, and bringing Christ down and that....okay, that ALWAYS draws a blank for me. What is Paul saying when he says THOSE words?? Like okay, I get it: he says in chapter 9 that the gentiles have a receive a righteousness which is of faith...I get that, that's fine. He says in many other parts "The righteousness of God which is of faith", but right here, what is Paul saying??? I hope someone else knows what I mean.

Rom 10:6-8
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the ord of faith, which we preach;
� KJV
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bpenelli

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Re: Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2011, 09:19:00 AM »

Maybe this translation will help:

(Amplified Bible)

    6 But the righteousness based on faith [imputed by God and bringing right relationship with Him] says, Do not say in your heart, Who will ascend into Heaven? that is, to bring Christ down;

    7 Or who will descend into the abyss? that is, to bring Christ up from the dead [as if we could be saved by our own efforts].

    8 But what does it say? The Word (God's message in Christ) is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word (the message, the basis and object) of faith which we preach,

    9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

    10 For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=AMP
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:21:11 AM by bpenelli »
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Romans 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

newgene87

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Re: Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 11:50:59 PM »

Naw, that translation really doesn't do it for it me.I don't see how "bringing christ from the dead" has to do with our own efforts or ascending up to heaven
 Its something ill continue to pray on. Regardless, I understand the righteousness of God is only by faith anyway ;)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 12:30:11 AM »

And that's what these verses are saying.  This is from the BBE.  I've added the "quotation marks" and the italicized parts to hopefully clarify it even further.

Rom 10:6-10  But the righteousness which is of faith says these words, "Say not in your heart, 'Who will go up to heaven?'"--that is, to make Christ come down.  Or, "Say not in your heart 'Who will go down into the deep?'"--that is, to make Christ come again from the dead:

But what does it (the righteousness of faith) say? It says "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart."--that is, the word of faith of which we are the preachers.  Because, if you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and have faith in your heart that God has made him come back from the dead, you will have salvation.  For with the heart man has faith to get righteousness, and with the mouth he says that Jesus is Lord to get salvation.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 01:13:42 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Revilonivek

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Re: Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 10:38:03 AM »

And that's what these verses are saying.  This is from the BBE.  I've added the "quotation marks" and the italicized parts to hopefully clarify it even further.

Rom 10:6-10  But the righteousness which is of faith says these words, "Say not in your heart, 'Who will go up to heaven?'"--that is, to make Christ come down.  Or, "Say not in your heart 'Who will go down into the deep?'"--that is, to make Christ come again from the dead:

But what does it (the righteousness of faith) say? It says "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart."--that is, the word of faith of which we are the preachers.  Because, if you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and have faith in your heart that God has made him come back from the dead, you will have salvation.  For with the heart man has faith to get righteousness, and with the mouth he says that Jesus is Lord to get salvation.


Let's rephrase this in English.... It's basically saying Do not perceive who will go to heaven because it would make Christ come down and do not try to perceive who will go to "hell" or "deep" or "grave" or "land of nothingness" because it would cause Christ to raise again.

And so on..

I guess he's saying, if you try to perceive who makes it or who doesn't, makes it unbelief in God's ability or effectiveness in saving humanity. As if saying... If you think that way. That means, every time you perceive whether someone makes it or not, you are thinking God has to die several times and raise several times just to save people invididually. It's basically an insult to God and shows no faith in God's ability to save humanity once for all.

That's how I see it?

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Kat

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Re: Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 12:49:42 PM »


Hi Gene,

Rom 10:4  For CHRIST is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth.
v. 5  For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby.
v. 6  BUT the righteousness which IS OF FAITH saith thus, Say NOT in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:)

Paul is just stating the obvious. There is no need for the believer who has faith to think there is a need to ascend up and bring Christ down from heaven, He has already come in the flesh and now lives in the heart of the believer. He made us that promise, "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you" (Joh 14:18).

Rom 10:7  or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (That is, to bring Christ up from the dead.)

I think that Paul was just showing these believers the absurdity by the questions he asks. They don't have to go up to heaven to get to Christ, and certainly there is no need for Him to be raised again, we must have faith that He has already been raised from the dead/abyss and is at the right hand of God as our High Priest.

Heb 8:1  Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,

The gospel was fairly new to these Believers and Paul was constantly reminding them about the truth of what had happened. Christ must be real to the believer, they need faith (given from God) that He was raised and is alive and indwelling in their lives.

Rom 10:8  But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
v. 9  because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:20:31 PM by Kat »
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newgene87

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Re: Righteousness of faith speaks on this wise??
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 07:19:45 PM »

Now that's what I needed. Thank u all for the replies :)
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