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Author Topic: Question on "her gates will never be shut"  (Read 2760 times)

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Cypress

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Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« on: November 29, 2011, 08:54:11 PM »

Hi!

I read this email to Ray, and was wondering if Ray answers it anywhere? I know Revelations is a book of symbols, so I'm not saying this is a literal gate...but are those outside of the gates, in the lake of fire? If so, is it after that they will be able to enter through the gates that are never shut?

"Dear Ray,
    I have not heard from you in a while and wondering what's up? I'm disappointed that you have not responded to my e-mails, not even a word to say I'm busy.
    I read a little here and there, and listen to a couple minutes of one of your video's. I read some of a conversation between you and a Cody or Willie, whoever. I skimmed over 16 other conversations you had with people as well. Cody seem to really get under your skin, so much so that you called him a name.
    How is it that you can attack Billy Graham and others for a word blunder or two and attack them publicly. The Word of God tells us how to properly handle church conflict, how to handle accusations, and what to do with those who are divisive, which we are to reject because the person is warped and sinning, being self condemned (Titus 3:9-10). It is a fearful thing to fall in to the hands of the living God (Heb.10:31).
    Have you read Rev.20: 10,12-15; Rev.21: 4-8, 27; Rev. 22:14-16 "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. "I Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches."
    If you read the scriptures you would see the wicked are cast into the Lake of Fire and will be tormented day and night for ever this is their part or place outside the gates of heaven. The believers are the only one's promised eternal life in Rev.21: 27" But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life." And to only the believers who overcome will experience God wiping away every tear from their eyes, no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Rev.21:4). Do you forget Rom.8:9 which says "...Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ , he is not His." You can also read 2Cor.6:14-7:1 to get a good understanding of the believer and unbeliever and Gods promise to those who obey Him. You can go to the book of Eph.5:5 and se e that no sinner has any place or inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Have your read 1Cor.6:9-10 which says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." They will not inherit the kingdom of God or heaven ever. Jesus said "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"(Matt.6:21-23).
    Some where you gave an example of 1% would be saved and 99% would be going to hell and how could a loving God do such a thing. How hard is it to understand the Word of God, Jesus says "Enter be the narrow gate; for wide is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."  How hard is it to understand that the majority of the people, or most  people will never go to heaven and only those who have received the Holy Spirit are the children of God and only they will ever taste of heaven.
     You make it sound like you alone or the group (Christian Universalists, ect.) you are apart of have a handle on the truth and that all Christian theologians are wrong. God did not make the Word of God so hard to understand that only a few like you could understand the truths. 2Peter1:20 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."  The true believers can understand the Word of God 1John 2:27 " But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him." & nbsp; The true believer's who have the Holy Spirit are the one's who can truly understand the Word of God and will be the only one's to enter the Kingdom of Heaven according to the Word of God. Yes, it may only be between 1-30% to spend eternity in heaven and 70-99% will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
     It says that the wicked, or sinners, will be outside they will not enter the kingdom of heaven, not ever.You can not change the Word of God and make it say what you want it to say. It will not fit and will not work.
    Thanks for your time,
    In His love,
 

    Jeff
Dear Jeff:
About 55 years ago, we had a LP record entitled "How to Teach Your Parakeet to Talk."  Well this parakeet on the record knew several hundred words. And he could even make small sentences. He was quite articulate.  But when he tried longer sentences or poems, every thing came out like words tumbling in a clothes dryer. He would quote half a poem then change to a different poem, then come back to the first one. It was hilarious.  You remind me of that parakeet.
Sincerely,
Ray
 
PS  There are 604 unanswered emails ahead of yours, but when I saw that name Jeff, I dropped everthing and gave you top billing. "
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Elaine

Kat

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 12:19:42 AM »


Hi Cypress,

Quote
I know Revelations is a book of symbols, so I'm not saying this is a literal gate...but are those outside of the gates, in the lake of fire? If so, is it after that they will be able to enter through the gates that are never shut?


Okay here is a quote from the email in your post.

Quote
Have you read Rev.20: 10,12-15; Rev.21: 4-8, 27; Rev. 22:14-16 "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. "I Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches."

If we can recognize that the Bible is primarily written for the Elect of this age that are chosen to be in the first resurrection, that should help us understand these things better. In Revelation 21 we see that this is talking about those Elect/new Jerusalem/bride of Christ brought into the kingdom at the return of Christ - the first resurrection.

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
v. 2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Now we know that the Elect are the very few from this age that will receive salvation at Christ's return, they are the only ones that will "enter through the gates into the city," at that time, which is the kingdom. The rest of humanity will be in the Lake of Fire to be purged and cleansed of any and all unrighteousness and at some point will also enter the gate to the kingdom. And we do know that everybody will be saved and here is a link to the FAQ board that shows the verses Proclaiming the 'Salvation of All' http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11798.0.html

Hope this was of some help.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Gina

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 12:42:54 AM »

Wait, do the elect not have access to the Tree of Life in this life?  Only in the resurrection?
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Kat

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 01:23:48 AM »


Hi Gena,

Why yes, most certainly. The tree of life is Jesus Christ!

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Gina

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 01:33:48 AM »

Oh, great!  Yeah, I know the Tree of Life is Christ, thanks.  It just sounded like the elect only gain access to the Tree of Life (Christ) at His return.

So, then does that mean that the elect are entering through the gates now, in this life?  Or can that only happen after Christ's return, in the resurrection?
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Gina

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 01:49:47 AM »

p.s.  I love Ray's reply!! ;D ;D ;D
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Cypress

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 09:26:24 AM »

Thanks Kat!
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Elaine

Kat

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 11:15:42 AM »


Hi Gena,

Yes Gena I think you could saying the Elect/few are at the narrow gate while in this life and being prepared to enter. The gate/door is Jesus Christ too.

John 10:7  Then Jesus said to them again, Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

But we can not actually enter the gate while we are still in the flesh, we have the earnest/promise now, until He returns.

John 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Eph 1:13  In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
v. 14  who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Here is a couple emails.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7390.0.html ------------

Math. 4:17

                    Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (KJ)

    Is this, perhaps, pertaining to the saved before the rapture??

    Your help would be greatly appreciated in this department.

     Thank you, and God bless Ray!!
     GOD'S DNA


    Dear DNA:  That would rather be Matt. 7:13-14--Mat 7:13 "Enter through the cramped gate, for broad is the gate and spacious is the way which is leading away into destruction, and many are those entering through it.  Yet what a cramped gate and narrowed way is the one leading away into life, and few are those who are finding it."

    I quoted it from the Concordant Literal New Testament so as to get the tense proper. Notice that it is the broad way that the many "are entering."  This is still going on, and it is through the narrowed way that "few are finding." This is nothing more than Jesus' statement that "many are called but few are chosen." But this pertains to this life only. In Judgment all will be judged as God's "House of God" is BEING judged NOW (See I Pet.4:17; I Cor. 11:31-32, etc.).


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html ----------------

The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come:  "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE.  Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
 
And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.
 
God be with you,
Ray
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 03:55:36 PM by Kat »
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Gina

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 11:41:24 AM »

Beautiful!  Thank you, Kat.

Gina
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Gina

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 12:27:26 PM »

Sorry, I just have all these questions now, and I'm not expecting you or me to know the answers, but I thought maybe we could just have a discussion.

Since Jesus is the gate/door, and the elect can only have access to the Father by going through that door (see John 14:6), wouldn't that mean that the elect do not have access to the Father this side of the resurrection?  I'm not talking about being completely saved (made "healthy/whole") in this life/this side of death -- I know that's not possible.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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Kat

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2011, 04:14:58 PM »


Hi Gena,

I enjoy these discussions with people of like mind so much. That's why I've hung around here for so long  :)

Quote
Since Jesus is the gate/door, and the elect can only have access to the Father by going through that door (see John 14:6), wouldn't that mean that the elect do not have access to the Father this side of the resurrection? 

Look at the next verse.

John 14:7  If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. And from now on you know Him and have seen Him.

We have Jesus Christ and in Him we also have the Father, as He is the perfect repersentation of the Father, "I and the Father are one!" (John 10:30). But as you said it all comes through Jesus Christ, but from the Father.

Heb 2:10  For it became Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons into glory, to perfect the Captain of their salvation through sufferings.
 
Mat 11:27  All things are delivered to Me by My Father. And no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will reveal Him.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Gina

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 05:04:46 PM »

Thanks.  I'll let this one alone for now.   :-\
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mharrell08

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 05:33:50 PM »

Sorry, I just have all these questions now, and I'm not expecting you or me to know the answers, but I thought maybe we could just have a discussion.

Since Jesus is the gate/door, and the elect can only have access to the Father by going through that door (see John 14:6), wouldn't that mean that the elect do not have access to the Father this side of the resurrection?  I'm not talking about being completely saved (made "healthy/whole") in this life/this side of death -- I know that's not possible.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


We have to remember, these are metaphors. These metaphors point to a truth, the truth is not in the metaphor itself.

Jesus is like a door, in certain ways. Meaning He is the entrance and exit. While entering a physical entrance is a matter of seconds, entering into Christ takes a lifetime & more. It is the same as the metaphor 'abide in Me'. Neither of these, the gate or the abode, are literal. We do these things throughout our life:

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Keeping Christ's commandments, loving one another is how we love the Father and Son, and how they love us and dwell in us, now, not after the Resurrection.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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mharrell08

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2011, 05:38:23 PM »

Hi!

I read this email to Ray, and was wondering if Ray answers it anywhere? I know Revelations is a book of symbols, so I'm not saying this is a literal gate...but are those outside of the gates, in the lake of fire? If so, is it after that they will be able to enter through the gates that are never shut?


Remember, God and His Elect are the Lake of Fire. It's just a metaphor that symbolizes how one is to be taught & converted to a saint. Being 'inside the gate' just symbolizes the saints who are converted. Those outside are not converted, yet.


Marques
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Gina

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Re: Question on "her gates will never be shut"
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2011, 05:49:21 PM »

Sorry, I just have all these questions now, and I'm not expecting you or me to know the answers, but I thought maybe we could just have a discussion.

Since Jesus is the gate/door, and the elect can only have access to the Father by going through that door (see John 14:6), wouldn't that mean that the elect do not have access to the Father this side of the resurrection?  I'm not talking about being completely saved (made "healthy/whole") in this life/this side of death -- I know that's not possible.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


We have to remember, these are metaphors. These metaphors point to a truth, the truth is not in the metaphor itself.

Jesus is like a door, in certain ways. Meaning He is the entrance and exit. While entering a physical entrance is a matter of seconds, entering into Christ takes a lifetime & more. It is the same as the metaphor 'abide in Me'. Neither of these, the gate or the abode, are literal. We do these things throughout our life:

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Keeping Christ's commandments, loving one another is how we love the Father and Son, and how they love us and dwell in us, now, not after the Resurrection.


Hope this helps,

Marques

That's what I was looking for, thanks!
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