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Author Topic: Became- I AM  (Read 1844 times)

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dave

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Became- I AM
« on: December 02, 2011, 06:01:18 PM »

I AM that I AM H1961  hyh   A primitive root; to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass
Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.
Gen 2:7  So then Yahweh God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of lifeand man became a living soul.
BECAME H1961  hyh   A primitive root; to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass
My question is, man "became" a living soul and that word "became," is the same as "I-Shall-Come-to-Be," then how can it be incorrect to not understand that man will return  to what he was at the first, "spirit." So in 1Cor. 15:44-47 Paul tells us "first" adam was natural and the second adam is spirit. It seems to me that the words " I AM and became" being the same word, were we not spirit first, then dust of the ground and we return to spirit. God is Spirit and we came out of God, were we not spirit first?Would that not be "a law of circularity?"
To tell you the truth I seem to be in a maze on this. Ray writes about 1 Cor.15 and I understood it, but all the while in my reasoning if God is Spirit and we came from or out of Him ..........thus my maze. Help Please.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 07:03:07 PM by micah7:9 »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Became- I AM
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2011, 10:27:06 PM »

I AM that I AM H1961  hyh   A primitive root; to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass
Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.
Gen 2:7  So then Yahweh God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of lifeand man became a living soul.
BECAME H1961  hyh   A primitive root; to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass
My question is, man "became" a living soul and that word "became," is the same as "I-Shall-Come-to-Be," then how can it be incorrect to not understand that man will return  to what he was at the first, "spirit." So in 1Cor. 15:44-47 Paul tells us "first" adam was natural and the second adam is spirit. It seems to me that the words " I AM and became" being the same word, were we not spirit first, then dust of the ground and we return to spirit. God is Spirit and we came out of God, were we not spirit first?Would that not be "a law of circularity?"
To tell you the truth I seem to be in a maze on this. Ray writes about 1 Cor.15 and I understood it, but all the while in my reasoning if God is Spirit and we came from or out of Him ..........thus my maze. Help Please.

If I'm understand this correctly, what you are saying is that because all things came out of God the Father and seeing as He is spirit, we must therefor have been also spirit at that time before we came into being as we are now.

If this is correct then I will present you with this;

Just because God gave rise to our existence through Himself, does not mean that we were actually conscious spiritual beings before we came into existence as we know it. You exist now as you know yourself, that being that you are, with thoughts, feelings, emotions etc...THE SOUL, exists because of the combination of God's spirit and the dust of the earth. To say one was spirit before that, because one came out of a being who is purely spirit, is a moot point, as you were not existent, not conscious, seeing as you did not possess a SOUL (A soul requires a body and God's breath of life, His Spirit.)

It's like saying I came out of my mother, therefor, I must have been my mother at some point! If you want to get nitty gritty, you could argue that I carry some of my mothers genetic information, while this is true, no where at any time before my birth was I conscious, nor was I my mother.

Edit: Just to clarify my point; Simply because something gives rise to something else, does not mean that something else was at any point, the thing which gave rise to it.

Furtalizer, poop, gives rise to flowers, but flowers were never actually the poop itself, just because the poop gave rise to them.

Hope that makes sense!

Love,

Alex
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 10:30:33 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

gmik

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Re: Became- I AM
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 11:48:11 PM »

John, I was thinking about that the other day:

Before I was born, what or where was I???

short answer:  nothing-didn't exist

We really have nothing to go by to think after death we just cease to exist again, EXCEPT our faith, trust, and hope in a Father God who wants us as a family.

I never really understood about the "all in all" at the end of the age until I started reading Ray's material.  We will exist after death...amazing grace isn't it???
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Rene

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Re: Became- I AM
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 12:19:22 PM »


Shortly after my father died, I went into the room where he lay.  I put my hand on his forehead.  I was surprised as to how quickly his body had cooled.  There was no force there.  Even with a sleeping body, you can sense a living presence.  But with a dead body, nothing


I've had several very close relatives to die, and when seeing their bodies, I too recall the "emptiness and nothingness" of their body.  I really could see that the body was just a "container" and not the person.  For some strange reason, this awareness gave me comfort.

Ren
 

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JohnMichael

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Re: Became- I AM
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 12:31:14 PM »

Death is simply the reversal of the Life process. God formed Adam out of the dust of the ground (body); breathed into this form His breath of life (spirit); and man became a living soul. When one dies, the body returns to the dust from whence it came (decomposes/rots) ["For dust thou art, and unto dust thou shall return"]; the spirit returns to God who gave it ("Into thy hands I commit my spirit"); and the soul vanishes (Sheol/Hades - unseen, state of being dead).

I'm beginning to notice this trend with how God does things. He brings something about, and brings it back the same way it went out from Him. Life-Death, Creation-Salvation, etc.

In Him,
John
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dave

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Re: Became- I AM
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 04:11:25 PM »

ALL, each and every response was excellent. I would like to quote this one if I may John.

"I think you make an error when you say man was at first a spirit.  The scriptures do not support that view, and Science knows nothing about spirit so we must rely upon God and the scriptures for the truth.

Before I was born, I did not exist.  When I was born, God gave me the spirit of life, and I became a living soul or being.  When I die, my unconscious spirit returns to God, my body becomes dust, and my soul, my sentient being ceases to be and goes to the unknown.  My thoughts cease."

Thank you. :)
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