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Author Topic: Trusting by faith  (Read 3923 times)

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indianabob

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Trusting by faith
« on: December 11, 2011, 09:04:04 PM »

Received this message from a friend. Bob

"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him." (Job 13:15-16)
 
The patriarch Job was, according to God's own testimony, the most perfect and upright man in all the earth (Job 1:8), yet he was subjected to the most severe testings that anyone (except Christ Himself) ever had to endure. He lost all his great possessions and his large family in a single day, then was afflicted for months on end with a most loathsome and painful disease. He lost the respect of all who had once honored and followed him and was even accused by his closest friends of being a wicked sinner and arrogant hypocrite. Worst of all, the God whom he had loved and faithfully served all his life had apparently completely ignored his prayers for deliverance, or even for understanding of what was happening to him. Finally, a presumptuous young religionist related what he (falsely) claimed was a divine message that even God had accused Job of sin and hypocrisy.
 
Yet, despite all this, Job never once lost his faith! "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him," he insisted. "For I know that my redeemer liveth" (Job 19:25), and "He also shall be my salvation" (today's verse).
 
What an example has been provided us by this ancient patriarch, whose knowledge of God's Word, God's love, and God's great salvation through faith in Christ was only a small fraction of what we know now, with God's complete revelation before us. The apostle James well reminds us of "the patience of Job," probably the greatest example of all "the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience" (James 5:10-11). We can, like Job, know that He who created us deserves absolute trust. HMM
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Fester

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 01:55:39 AM »

 
Reminds me of a song from my childhood...
 
Have faith, hope and charity
That's the way to live successfully
How do I know, the Bible tells me so.

Don't worry about tomorrow
Just be real good today
The Lord is right beside you
He'll guide you all the way.
 
So let's have faith, hope and charity
That's the way to live successfully
How do I know, the Bible tells me so.
 

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"Christianity began as a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. When it went to Athens, it became a philosophy. When it went to Rome, it became an organization. When it went to Europe, it became a culture. When it came to America, it became a business."

River

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 01:58:24 AM »

Now see that is hard for me to swallow because I couldn't honestly say that I have never doubted, I still doubt. The way Job is presented to us by others is like this guy just knew for sure and had his head on straight. My name isn't Job but I knew I have been tested and I know for a fact that I didn't know nothing. I did surrender to the fact that everything was beyond me but I also knew that all the ideas I was taught about God were thrown out the window. Doctrine and scripture lines and all that to be honest all go by the way side when your slammed. You don't know jack and that is the truth of my Job experience. So for me to be able to say "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him,"  "For I know that my redeemer liveth" (Job 19:25) well it most likely would be a grasp at some sort of hope or just clinging to a strong conditioned religious upbringing. Everytime I have experienced my Job testing I just surrender but I don't know if I can call it trusting or faith. For me it is more like I realize my place and know I don't run the show. I'd be curious to know how others have faced their darkest hour.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 08:00:38 AM »




....darkest hour (singular)...LOL....darkest HOURS...(plural)....Yes, sure there's a gradient...some moments are worse than others...

How I faced the worst one...LIKE a Zombie...totally arrested, paused, blank, ..... knowing nothing, thinking nothing..hey..isn't that how Hades is defined...lol....well like that. Not even being able to lift up my voice to God or even know that God exists. Totally zoned out, and not by a drug or anesthetic either. My mind stopped. Pain stopped reason. Agony stopped hope, and Love kept me breathing. ~ :)
 

Arc
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 03:59:14 PM »

Actually, Job was a sinner just like all the rest of us.  The scriptures say that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  The scriptures also say that there are none good, no not one.  Jesus asked why the man called Him (Jesus) good; Jesus said that there are none good but one---God.

Job had a great sin that only God could see.  Even Satan didn't see Job's sin.  God toyed with Satan by making relative statements about Job's goodness.  Satan didn't understand or see the absolute truth of Job's sin.

Job's great sin was that he was self-righteous.  Job did good works.  Job thought he was good because of the good things he did.  A common deception that has fooled all mankind, especially Christians.

God brought Job low to get his attention.  God then compared Himself to Job to show Job how low and wrong Job was in comparison to God.

Job finally got it and repented.  "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.  Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."  Job 42:5-6

If Job had been truly righteous, then he wouldn't have had to repent before God.

One of the lessons of the Book of Job to those who hear God's voice today, is that we shouldn't think all that highly of ourselves based upon what we know or our good works.  Only God is good, and only He should get the glory.
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mharrell08

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 04:25:06 PM »

Great comments JFK
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 04:31:45 PM »


This brings up another very important subject.  When many believers find themselves in trials and hardships, they often feel that they
must be doing something wrong, and that God is not please with them--maybe you believe God is even punishing you for your sins.
Let me tell you something:  in all these trials that I am personally going though the last couple of years, I have never once felt that God
is punishing me for my sins. Let's not forget the lesson of Job.  God did not assign Satan to crush Job with horrible diseases because
God wanted to get Job to repent of his sins. God was not punishing Job, He was TESTING Job, and guess what?  Job passed the
test.  God did not tell Eliphaz to sacrifice seven bullocks and seven rams for Job's sins, or for Job's short-comings, no, God told him
to sacrifice them for the sins of himself and his two friends.  The three of them condemned Job for doing wrong, when they could not
point to one single wrong that Job committed.  Job said to God: "Thou knowest that I am NOT WICKED; and there is none that can
deliver out of Thine hand" (Job 10:7).  Furthermore, God Himself stated that Job was "...a perfect and an upright man, one that fears
God and suns evil" (Job 1:.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9330.0.html
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 08:27:33 PM »


This brings up another very important subject.  When many believers find themselves in trials and hardships, they often feel that they
must be doing something wrong, and that God is not please with them--maybe you believe God is even punishing you for your sins.
Let me tell you something:  in all these trials that I am personally going though the last couple of years, I have never once felt that God
is punishing me for my sins. Let's not forget the lesson of Job.  God did not assign Satan to crush Job with horrible diseases because
God wanted to get Job to repent of his sins. God was not punishing Job, He was TESTING Job, and guess what?  Job passed the
test.  God did not tell Eliphaz to sacrifice seven bullocks and seven rams for Job's sins, or for Job's short-comings, no, God told him
to sacrifice them for the sins of himself and his two friends.  The three of them condemned Job for doing wrong, when they could not
point to one single wrong that Job committed.  Job said to God: "Thou knowest that I am NOT WICKED; and there is none that can
deliver out of Thine hand" (Job 10:7).  Furthermore, God Himself stated that Job was "...a perfect and an upright man, one that fears
God and suns evil" (Job 1:.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9330.0.html

Hi Arc,

One must understand the difference between relative truth and absolute truth to understand the Book of Job and all scriptures.  Ray discusses this topic of relative versus absolute in his Lake of Fire articles.

When God said that Job was a "perfect and upright man" that was true since God does not lie.  Job was a good and upright man relative to other men.  Even Satan couldn't find anything wrong with Job.  Satan is an expert on sin and evil.  If he can't find something wrong with you, then you must be good, relatively speaking.

But, in terms of absolute good, God saw this huge beam in Job's eye.  Job was self-righteous.  Job was good; Job knew he was good; and he wasn't shy about saying so.  Even when God took everything from Job (except for a nagging wife who wouldn't shut up  :D), Job still maintained his integrity, his sense of being right and good.

In the scriptures, God teaches that all men have sinned (including Job); that none are good.

Job disagreed.  Job thought he was good.

What does God think about Job or any man?  "..for dust you are, and unto dust you shall return." Gen 3:19

So since God and Job disagreed, God straightened Job out on this point.  In chapter 42 of the Book, Job repented and acknowledged his sin.  After all, if you are without sin, what do you repent of?

The Book of Job is a profound lesson for all of us.  Beware the sin of self righteousness.  If the Spirit of God is in us, then we will do the good works of Jesus.  We have to take care and acknowledge that the good comes from God and not from us.

John
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 03:23:36 AM »

Hey John~ :)

As I am given to understand the insight and teaching Ray presents in his letter to the Forum, which is the insight and teaching with which you may be disagreeing John,  I am reminded of the posture I have heard falsely taught in Christendom. That is, self righteousness is the be all and end all meaning for Job's experience with meeting God. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. LOL!

Christendom doesnít teach Truth nor shows the Majesty of Godís thoughts and mind and the all-encompassing liberty we have in Christ.

It is laughable that Christendom has to see a sin... ROFL  Their focus is sin, shame, suffering, punishment, death and hell...LOL...ROFL...

Like concluding that Isaiah had his lips burned by the coals lifted from the alter by the Seraphim NOT because he was iniquitous and sin filled but because Isaiah SAW THE KING, the Lord of Hosts, is to give glory to God for opening Isaiahís eyes and not glory to the sin that kept them closed....LOL

Seeing the King in you John, and looking away from that sin that so easily and deftly clings, to Jesus the author and finisher of Faith, for JOY....

God is Love and I love God's Kindness and Mercy, and that's, no laughing matter!

Arc
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Joel

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 10:35:40 PM »

Job lived and died in faith, he cursed the day he was born, but not God, as Satan had predicted.

Joel


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DougE6

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 11:29:45 PM »


whats interesting about Job, is that after God called him out on his self righteousness, by a VERY DEEP and HARD TRIAL, that Job repented of that attitude and sin. Then God fully restored him double, and God even rebuked and reprimanded his tormenting "friends" who claimed all Job's troubles were the result of sins in his life, that Job had to defend himself against their accusations. His friends did not have a clue what was really going on, that God was showing His ways of interacting with Satan, that God was reproving Job in showing him the differnce between God and man, and God was giving us a window into His sovereignity, how He runs things.

But to follow my first point, if Job was pretty much blameless before this trial, and now had repented of His self righteousness, then a person could make a strong arguement that by the hand of God, Job had become an overcomer...I cannot see what else God would have to do in his heart and mind and life.  As we are His workmanship, a whole lot of work was done in Job. What would be left? Blamess and NO longer self righteous. WOW.(this arguement is also, of course, taking into account the essential future work of Jesus on the cross to allow God to forgive all of Jobs sins)

It is a good example of the lengths God will go to make someone into overcomers. Even sending Satan to do imaginably challenging things to us. So God will scour every last sinful carnal tendency out of each of us...eventually. Just like Job.
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Arion

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 12:26:02 PM »

The crux of it is very simple to me.  Job endured because God willed it to be so for a testimony against Satan.  It was no different for Jesus because God wouldn't let him fall and our path is no different either.  We trust by 'faith' because God gives us the faith in the first place to believe in spite of circumstances that would lead us to a different conclusion.  Those that don't have the faith is because God has yet to give it to them.  It's not my faith.....it's His.
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Gina

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Re: Trusting by faith
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 01:04:45 PM »

The crux of it is very simple to me.  Job endured because God willed it to be so for a testimony against Satan.  It was no different for Jesus because God wouldn't let him fall and our path is no different either.  We trust by 'faith' because God gives us the faith in the first place to believe in spite of circumstances that would lead us to a different conclusion.  Those that don't have the faith is because God has yet to give it to them.  It's not my faith.....it's His.

YES!
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