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Poor in spirit
GaryK:
Howdy.
There’s only two good things that have come out of Kentucky........but I’m going to throw JFK some credit anyway. ;D
In another recent thread John from Kentucky stated that Job was self-righteous. Didn’t see that one coming John. I’ve been thinking on that. My guess is ‘self-righteous’ is much more than meets the eye, or mind. I’ll bet that’s a deep study. If Ray’s written on it, specifically, give me a link, anyone.
Self-righteousness got me to thinking about Matthew 5:3:
King James Version (KJV)
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
In search, Isaiah 66:2 came up as well:
Isaiah 66:2
King James Version (KJV)
2For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
contrite
adjective
1. caused by or showing sincere remorse.
2. filled with a sense of guilt and the desire for atonement; penitent: a contrite sinner.
________________________________________
Origin:
1300–50; Middle English contrit (< Anglo-French ) < Latin contrītus worn down, crushed,
Poor in spirit, contrite. Interesting. I’m not talking about walking around beating ourselves up physically or emotionally, although I’ve done it, but that was more out of regret for some of the stupidest decisions in life a man could make. Everyone’s done it, I suppose, unless you’re self-righteous. :) But that too, based on the many discussions here, those ‘decisions’ were of God as well. I don’t have a solid grip on that still. Must be a package deal and I’m too cheap to buy it.
But regret has to be different than poor in spirit.
If we listen to Ray, and we do, …..well some of you do….what can man do about it? I say nothing, be it that no one has free-will and ‘you didn’t choose me, I chose you’. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. But, if Jesus gives us the trials to produce the ‘fruit’, then maybe the ‘poor in spirit’ is a direct result, or complimentary to the fruit. Maybe it’s not? Or then again it may be part of the ‘and I turned and saw’ package that Ray talks on, and I’ll put bet on tearing down ‘self-righteousness’ in a man is like melting down the iron under the mountains on those 1/3’s being burned and pillaged.
Just what is, exactly, ‘self-righteousness’? I think it can get deep into a man without him knowing it and I’m inclined to accept that none of it can be burned away unless we stare it in the face at some point. I’ll bet that’s hard to do, but I'll also bet doing so can put you on your knees hard, spiritually speaking.
Just what is, exactly, ‘poor in spirit’? I’m getting the feeling there’s more to poor in spirit than regret or being a good Samaritan. Even an atheist can be a good Samaritan. Like Ray said, maybe even Hitler was kind to his dog or his mother. So that’s not it.
How does a man go about defeating self-righteousness, what is it?......receiving a contrite heart and attitude, a poor spirit? What is it?
I’d like to have one of those.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: gk on December 16, 2011, 12:50:46 PM ---Just what is, exactly, ‘poor in spirit’?
--- End quote ---
1 Cor 1:26-28 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are...
newgene87:
When I think of "self-righteousness" one of Jesus parables come to mind
Luk 18:9-14
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which TRUSETED IN THEMSELVES that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am NOT AS OTHER MEN are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Then speaks to me thinking in oneself that they are righteous or self-righteous: it seems that will produce the cause to despise others or even judge them. The publican just abased himself and considered himself in a sense, "poor in the spirit" , pleading for Gods mercy. Maybe that helps :-)
JohnMichael:
Hey GK,
This may provide some insight. It's taken right out of the book of Job. To me, this gives a very good inclination to what it means to be self-righteous.
(GNB)
Job 32:1 Because Job was convinced of his own innocence, the three men gave up trying to answer him.
Job 32:2 But a bystander named Elihu could not control his anger any longer, because Job was justifying [H6663] himself and blaming God.
[H6663: tsadaq - to be right, to justify self, to stand righteous in one's own eyes]
Job 33:8 Now this is what I heard you say:
Job 33:9 "I am not guilty; I have done nothing wrong. I am innocent and free from sin.
Job 33:10 But God finds excuses for attacking me and treats me like an enemy.
Job 33:11 He binds chains on my feet; he watches every move I make."
Job 33:12 But I tell you, Job, you are wrong. God is greater than any human being.
Job 33:13 Why do you accuse God of never answering our complaints?
Job 34:5 Job claims that he is innocent, that God refuses to give him justice.
Job 34:6 He asks, "How could I lie and say I am wrong? I am fatally wounded, but I am sinless."
Job 34:7 Have you ever seen anyone like this man Job? He never shows respect for God.
Job 40:1 Job, you challenged Almighty God; will you give up now, or will you answer?
Job 40:2 (SEE 40:1)
Job 40:3 I spoke foolishly, LORD. What can I answer? I will not try to say anything else.
Job 40:4 (SEE 40:3)
Job 40:5 I have already said more than I should.
Job 40:6 Then out of the storm the LORD spoke to Job once again.
Job 40:7 Now stand up straight and answer my questions.
Job 40:8 Are you trying to prove that I am unjust--- to put me in the wrong and yourself in the right?
Job 40:9 Are you as strong as I am? Can your voice thunder as loud as mine?
Job 40:10 If so, stand up in your honor and pride; clothe yourself with majesty and glory.
Job 40:11 Look at those who are proud; pour out your anger and humble them.
Job 40:12 Yes, look at them and bring them down; crush the wicked where they stand.
Job 40:13 Bury them all in the ground; bind them in the world of the dead.
Job 40:14 Then I will be the first to praise you and admit that you won the victory yourself.
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD.
Job 42:2 I know, LORD, that you are all-powerful; that you can do everything you want.
Job 42:3 You ask how I dare question your wisdom when I am so very ignorant. I talked about things I did not understand, about marvels too great for me to know.
Job 42:6 So I am ashamed of all I have said and repent in dust and ashes.
In the southern states, we have an expression that goes, "It's time for us to have a Come-to-Jesus meeting." Basically, that expression means it's time to pay the piper and face/answer for what one has been doing. Job, here, definitely had one of those.
The opposite of self-righteous would be poor in spirit, or humble. Job was humbled at the end (chapter 42). It was after this that the Lord restored Job and blessed him above what he had before.
Hope this helps.
In Him,
John
Gina:
Hi, gk
Yours are great questions, lots of fitting responses, and it looks like Marques totally nailed it.
I will borrow from JFK and say, "I don't know!" but I think I can take an educated guess, and I would say: IMHO (HA-HA! lol), self-righteousness looks like, who else?
The pharisees and their ilk.
Not to sound condescending or anything but, I've read many of your posts as a lurker (I've read a lot of everyone's), gk, and you come across to me as a truthseeker/believer in the truest sense of the word.
Re self-righteousness, this verse of scripture in Isaiah came to mind:
(Amplified bible)
Isaiah 50:11 Behold, all you [enemies of your own selves] who attempt to kindle your own fires [and work out your own plans of salvation], who surround and gird yourselves with momentary sparks, darts, and firebrands that you set aflame!--walk by the light of your self-made fire and of the sparks that you have kindled [for yourself, if you will]! But this shall you have from My hand: you shall lie down in grief and in torment.
I'm not sure if that fits with the pharisees. I'd be interested in others' thoughts on that. I can't think of another witness.
Your question re poor in spirit is something that I've wondered about many times. That's a great topic and thank you for bringing it up. I always think of these verses when I think of poor in spirit (I'm sure there are many others that may be more fitting, but here ya go...):
OT
Proverbs 13:7
One man considers himself rich, yet has nothing [to keep permanently]; another man considers himself poor, yet has great [and indestructible] riches.
NT
Matthew 6:19
Do not gather and heap up and store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust and worm consume and destroy, and where thieves break through and steal.
20But gather and heap up and store for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust nor worm consume and destroy, and where thieves do not break through and steal;
21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
And this one:
James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and in their position as believers and to inherit the kingdom which He has promised to those who love Him?
Anyhooo... thanks for the challenge! lol Again, great topic, and I hope you find the answers you're looking for soon, gk. :)
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