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Author Topic: Is God a hypocrite? Question on Your last paper  (Read 3656 times)

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Craig

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Is God a hypocrite? Question on Your last paper
« on: December 22, 2011, 08:59:25 PM »

Is God a hypocrite?

Surely not! However, Ray states:

COMMENT:  I'm not sure of the intention of that statement.  "Is God a hypocrite? Surely not! HOWEVER, Ray states:"  Is the "However, Ray states" suppose to indicate that I contradict the idea that God is not a hypocrite?  I don't want to read anything into this that isn't there.

So, does God really "love" such wicked & deceitful people?

The Bible answers:

A STARTLING REVELATION: GOD HATES SINNERS

 "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them" (Leviticus 20:23)

"If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments ...My soul shall abhor you" (Lev. 26:14 & 30)

"For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD" (Deut. 18:12

"...all that do unrighteously are an abomination unto the LORD" (Deut. 25:16)

"They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to anger...and when the LORD saw it, and He abhorred them..." (Deut. 32:16 & 19)

"The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: You hate all workers of iniquity..." (Psalm 5:5)

"...God is angry [Heb: 'enraged, abhorrence, abominable'] with the wicked every day" (Psalm 7:11)

"For the wicked boasts of his heart's desire, and... blesses the covetous, whom the LORD abhors" (Psalm 10:3)

"The Lord tries the righteous: but the wicked and him that loves violence His soul hates" (Psalm 11:5)

"When God heard this He was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel" (Psalm 78:59)

"For the froward [adverse, disobedient] is an abomination to the LORD" (Prov. 3:32)

"These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination to Him... A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among the brethren" (Prov. 6:16 & 19)

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, God's curse be upon him" (I Cor. 16:22, Moffatt Translation)

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is enmity [hatred] with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an enemy of God" (James 4:4)

So what is there about man that God loves? He hates man's sin and He hates the man who commits the sin.
http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm


COMMENT:  By ending with my above comment,  it could be intended to show that what I am saying is, since God hates both the sin and sinner there is therefore NOTHING for God to love in humanity. But that is decidedly NOT what I am concluding, and the rest of my paper proves just what it is that God loves in humanity.

Ignoring for the moment that this conjures up images of Rev. Phelps' group holding up picket signs about how "God hates fags" at various occasions, what about these Scriptures? Here are the Hebrew words and their meanings in each of those verses:

COMMENT:  Seems John is being less than honest in giving us the meanings of the "hate" words used in my selection of Scriptures. He picks a word from the definitions that is softest so as to help his arguments or in some cases makes up a word that is not part of its definition. You judge:

(disgust) tsa'daq - Lev 20:23

COMMENT:  Actually the Hebrew word here is "quts" which does mean "disgust," but the rest of the definition is:   abhor " [' to detest'] and loathe ['to dislike someone greatly'], which are strong words of "hate."

George Bush Senior dislikes broccoli greatly--actually, he HATES broccoli!

(disgust) ga'al - Lev 26:30

COMMENT:  No, "gaal" means " detest ['to dislike intensely'], abhor , loathe "  "Disgust" is not the definition of "gaal."

(disgusting) toe'bah toe'bah - Deut 18:12, 25:16, Pro 3:32, Pro 6:16

COMMENT:  "toebah toebah" means, "disgusting, abhorrence , abominable ['unequivocally detestable, loathsome']."

(to scorn) na'ats - Deut 32:19, Psa 10:3

COMMENT: "baats" means, "to scorn, abhor , blaspheme , contemn ['contempt, despise], despise ."

(to be angry, furious) zaam - Psa 7:11

COMMENT:  "zaam" means "to foam at the mouth , to be enraged ,  abhor , abominable , (be) angry,   indignation .


(to spurn, reject) maas - Psa 78:59

COMMENT:  "maas" means, "to spurn, abhor , cast away , contemn , despise , disdain , loathe , reject , reprobate , vile person ."

(hate) sa'ne - Psa 5:5, Psa 11:5, Pro 6:16

The only verses that actually say "hate" are Psa 5:5, Psa 11:5, and the first half of Pro 6:16 ("these six things doth the Lord hate")

COMMENT:  Oh really?  The words "abhor, detest, loathe, and despise" are synonyms for and definitions of the word "hate." and these very words are used TWENTY-THREE TIMES in the above Scriptures!

Also, are we forgetting the words of our Lord Who stated: "...in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established"?  And now two or three verses confirming God's "hatred" are not enough for John?  And how about the other 20 words used above which also mean "hate?"


1 Cor 16:22 says "ay'to an-ath'-em-ah" which means "let him be accursed." (Young's Literal Translation & Strong's Concordance)

Ray says God hates sinners.

COMMENT:  Oh really?  Rays says that, does he?  Did he just make that up?  Or does he have a dozen Scriptures which show that God hates sinners?

 Who are sinners? The Scriptures answer:

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is enmity [hatred] with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an enemy of God

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Jn 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

That means every single one of us. Every human who has ever lived (except our Lord) is a sinner, and according to Ray, God hates us.

COMMENT:  "According to Ray" is it?  Ray is the author of the dozens Scriptures presented above which state that God hates sinners?

Yet:

"WE ARE GOD'S KIN!...We really are of the kin, race, and genealogy of God Almighty!" - Ray's article.

I'm having trouble understanding this. What parent in their right mind would HATE their children? The parent might hate the child's actions or attitude, but does the parent hate the child itself? "If we being evil, know to do such things..." Mat 7:11

COMMENT: It would be more accurate to say John has trouble understanding God's Word, rather than having trouble understanding Ray. We need to be careful how we pose questions as they relate to God.  God is our "Father," and so that makes Him a Parent.  So to ask "What Father/God parent in His right mind would HATE His children?" is really derogative.

 Nonetheless, here's the answer:  "When God heard this, He was wroth ['wrathful, fiercely angry, violent anger, vindictive anger, divine retribution for sin'], and greatly abhorred ['to spurn, abhor, cast away, contemn, despise, disdain,  loathe'] ISRAEL [His children]" (Psalm 78:59).



David stated:

Psa 139:22  I hate them with a total hatred; I regard them as my enemies.

But our Lord instructed us:

Mat 5:43 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.

Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies , bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Why would Christ command us to do something that He and the Father do not do?

COMMENT:  The kind of love Jesus teaches here is "agapao" which is a moral love rather than a friendship type love.  Jesus says to "do good" to those, which God Himself does do.  God sends rain upon the just and the unjust, for example.  I suppose I could have added another five or ten pages to my paper to cover every possible misunderstanding my readers might have, but my papers are often too long as they are.

When God shows that He hates "sinners" as I presented in a dozen verses, this is not the same as saying: "God hates every person who sins."  Without going through all twelve Scriptures, let me just point out a few obvious ones that everyone should be able to clear see, although I could go through all of them.

Let's look at the first one:  ďAnd ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I  abhorred them "  (Leviticus 20:23).

Now then, who are the people and what are the sins that God has reference to in this verse?  Every person on earth who sins?  NO.  He hated "the manners of the nations" who "committed all these things." WHAT "things?" Read the preceding 10 verses:  "And the man that committes adultery with another man's wife....the man that lies with his father's wife...a man lieswith his daughter in law....a man also lies with mankind [there's for your 'God hates fags' comment]...if a man lie with a beast...a woman who approaches any beast to lie down thereto...a man who takes his sister...etc.

 
Now then, do YOU commit these sins as a way of life, as the nations did?  Then God is not speaking to you when He says "I abhorred them ."

Another one:  "For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD" Deut. 18:12).  What things are an abomination unto the LORD the committers of which God HATES?  Read the preceding two verses:

"There shall not be found among you any one  that makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire , or that uses divination , or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things...."  (Deut. 18:10-12).

Do you do these things?  Then God does not hate you.  Etc.

 
How could God hate sinners (who are His enemies - Jam 4:4, Rom 8:7) and yet command us to LOVE our enemies? That would make the Father and Christ hypocrites, and we know that is definitely not true.

COMMENT:  But God does not hate every person who commits a sin. That is John's deduction, not mine or the Bible's.

What about "God IS love" (1 Jn 4:7

1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God, and everyone who loves has been born of God, and knows God.
1Jn 4:8  The one who does not love has not known God. For God is love.

COMMENT:  Those verses have nothing to do with the subject.

What about 1 Jn 3:15?

1Jn 3:15  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

COMMENT:  A brother hating a brother has absolutely nothing to do with our subject.

"God hates sinners" does not compute for me based upon the aforementioned verses. Maybe one of you can help me understand?

COMMENT:  The aforementioned verses have nothing to do with the subject, so there should be no confusion there.

I think John is trying to make more out of my paper than I stated or intended.  My capture was:  "God Hates Sinners."  It did not say: "God hates THE WORLD," or "God hates EVERYONE,"  or "God hates YOU."

But that is the conclusion that John is drawing, something I didn't even insinuate.  Based on the dozen Scriptures I presented one could conclude that those people who commit the sins mentioned, and who sin as a way of life, are hated of God.  But once God through His goodness ( Rom. 2:4) has granted us repentance, we no longer fall into that category of sins or that category of sinners.

Nowhere can it be shown in the Scriptures that any person had ever reached the point in their lives that they no longer ever committed sin. What we are to do is not let sin "REIGN" over us.

"That as sin hath reigned unto death , even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom 5:21).

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof" (Rom. 6:12)

Hopefully, sin is not "reigning" in any of you.  Once we repent and turn our lives over to God, God looks at us differently.  Here is one of my favorite verses in maybe my favorite chapter in the Bible:

"There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION [NO hatred] to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Rom. 8;1).

"... they that are in the flesh cannot please God.   But ye are not in the flesh , but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" (Rom. 8:8-9).

Another major point, which I did cover in my paper, is that God sees and counts that that "are not" as though they "were."

Another point we might consider is this:  Is it really possible to separate the sinner from his sinful way of life?  As I believe I stated in my paper, would God die on the cross for a sinner that He knew would never repent of his sins?  Did Jesus die for "eternal sinners?"  No, of course not. He acted upon things not as they were at his crucifixion, but as they would be (later) when those same sinners who drove the nails would deeply repent of their sins and evils.

Here is the conclusion to the whole matter:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death ? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death : that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection : "Knowing this, that our old man is CRUCIFIED   [put to DEATH]  with Him , that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin . FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN .

COMMENT:  Notice that it only through "death" that the sinner is freed from his sin.  Christ had to DIE, and we have to DIE.  We are "reckoned" to be death in baptism and we are "reckoned" to be alive, all through Christ.

"Now if we be DEAD with Christ , we believe that we shall also live with Him:  Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death hath no more dominion over Him.  For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He lives, He lives unto God.  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin , but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.  Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.  Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead , and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace " ( Rom. 6:3-14).

The answer to both sin and the sinner is "death."  The only way to save the sinner is to get the sin out of the sinner.  If sin could not be gotten out of the sinner, Jesus would never have died for him.  "The wages of sin is death" ( Rom. 6:23).  Jesus did not die to save sinners along WITH their sins.  There will be no sinners in the kingdom of God .  When all the sins and sinners that God now hates are cleansed of their sins, each will be a UNIQUE TREASURE to God that He will love and lavish for all eternity!

Ray

In Him,
John

 
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