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Author Topic: who to pray to??  (Read 5669 times)

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2011, 02:45:33 PM »

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html

We don't have to wait for something 'new' to get on the right track.  If we can't reconcile all scripture within the confines of what we've gown up believing or what we now think, then there is something amiss in what we think.

GOD is not a trinity.  Neither is He a duality.      

Some of these questions, at least, are answered in the Trinity paper.  If we just read that to refute Trinitarianism, we're missing a large part of the teaching.      
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 02:49:17 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2011, 04:20:52 PM »


I think a review of what Ray has recently said on this subject.

This is an excerpt from the note page of the 'Who and What is Jesus" conference.

http://bible-truths.com/audio/notes.htm --------------------------------------------------

" Hear O Israel the Yehwah our Elohim is ONE Yehwah" (Deut. 6:14)

"The Yahweh your Elohim, He is Elohim, the faithful El which keeps covenant and mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments" (Deut. 7:9).

"For the Yehwah your Elohim is Elohim of Elohim and Adon Adon of Adon Adon a great El"(Deut. 10:17)

"I am the Yahweh, and there is none else, there is NO ELOHIM beside Me" (Isa. 45:5 & 6).

Notice that there is "NO ELOHIM except Yahweh." Then where does Jesusí Father come in?

We know that there is a "God the Father," for Jesus Himself spoke of "God the Father" (John 6:27). And we have this: "God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 1:7). They are even contrasted "not as I will, but as THOU" (Matt. 26:39).

ANSWER: God the Father and Jehovah [Jesus] Elohim, ARE ONE GOD. "I and My Father are ONE" (John 10:30). "One" what?  O-N-E  G-O-D!
 
"THE Lord [Jehovah]" of Psalm 110:1 becomes GOD THE FATHER in Heb. 1:1 & 13. The "God" Who spoke to the fathers was "the LORD THY GOD [Jehovah your Elohim]" Who was Jesus, was also GOD THE FATHER. How so? They are ONE.

"The God OF OUR FATHERS raised up JESUS, Whom ye slew and hanged on a tree" (Acts 5:30). But in the Old Testament, Jesus Christ was Jehovah Elohim to the fathers.

THEY ARE ONE: "I and My Father ARE ONE"

Jesus was "Emmanuel" which means "God with us.." (Mat. 1:23).

"he that has seen Me HAS SEEN THE FATHER, I am in the Father and the Father in Me, Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me." (John 14:9-11).

Jesus has taught us that when TWO are in spiritual harmony, THEY ARE REALLY ONE (Matt. 19:5)

Marriage is the closest physical analogy of this truth (Eph. 5:28-32).

THE ONE GOD IS CHANGELESS:

"I am the LORD [Jehovah] I change NOT" (Mal. 3:6).

"Jesus Christ the SAME yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb. 13:8). But what about the FATHER? Does He change?

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the FATHER OF LIGHTS, with Whom is no variableness [no variation, ASA; never subject to change, TCNT] neither shadow of turning [shadow do to a change]" (Jam. 1:17).

UNCHANGEABLENESS speaks of TOTAL PERFECTION. When total perfection is achieved, THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO CHANGE IN THAT WHICH IS ALREADY PERFECT!

"Be ye therefore [Gk: Ye will be] perfect even as your Father which is in heaven IS PERFECT" (Matt. 5:48).

"those whom You have given Me, that they may be ONE, AS we are ONE" (John 17:11).

"That they all may be ONE; as You Father, are in Me and I in Thee, that they also may be ONE IN US.that they may be ONE even as We are ONE that they may be made perfect [future tense I John 3:2] in ONE" (John 17:21).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is an email from May 2011.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13157.0.html ------------------------

The key to understanding just Who God is.  We will also delve into the "What" aspect of God.  All of the Scriptures must agree or we are not understanding or teaching properly. 

I have said for many years that "Jesus IS GOD" (see pp 22-23 of my article "God is NOT a Trinity.")  But if Jesus IS God and His Father IS God don't we then have TWO GODS?  There is ONLY ONE GOD!  Yes, this does appear to be an unsolvable enigma, but it is not unsolvable. 

I have said and taught further through the years that not only is Jesus God, but He is the ONLY GOD that we will every truly know in this life.  And why do I say that?  Well for one thing, that IS what the Scriptures teach: 

"And this IS life eternal [eonian--'And this is the Aionian Life..."--Emphatic Diaglott."], that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom Thou has sent" (John 17:3). 

Yes, it will take "aions/eons" to come to know God the Father.  It won't happen in this life. So what is the purpose of us receiving eonian life?  To come to "...know Thee the only true God..."

There is so much more to this teaching that just solving the riddle of how the Father and Son can both be God if.....I say IF they are separate Beings with separate personalities.

"Hear O Israel, the LORD thy God is ONE LORD" (Deut. 6:4).

"I and My Father ARE ONE" (John 10:30).

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word [singular] WAS GOD" (John 1:1).

"I am the LORD, and there is non else, there is NO GOD BESIDE ME" (Isa. 45:5--"none
   else" ver. 14;  "none else" ver. 18; "none beside Me" ver. 21;  "I am God, there is none else"
   ver. 22;  "I am God, there is none like Me," Isa. 46:9;  "I am and there is none else beside
   Me," Isa. 47:.

"There is none other God, BUT ONE...But to us there is BUT ONE GOD" (I Cor. 8:4 & 6).

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, 'Hear, O Israel; The Lord
our God is ONE LORD" (Mark. 12:29).

As to how many "Gods" there are, there is no argument!  There is but ONE GOD!  I have now given you part of the answer, but there is much to follow.  We know what the Scripture says, but how is it possible for two to be one God? There is an answer.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

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santgem

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2012, 07:49:06 AM »

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Act 7:59
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Act 7:60

Stephen plainly prayed clearly to (resurrected) Jesus.
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Revilonivek

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2012, 02:19:58 PM »

You can see Stephen's state of heart condition right there. He was praying to Jesus that the murderers not be held charged for killing him while they were killing him. There's love and concern for one another.

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John from Kentucky

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2012, 02:41:41 PM »

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Act 7:59
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Act 7:60

Stephen plainly prayed clearly to (resurrected) Jesus.



And yet, when Jesus prayed to God, He called Him Father.
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santgem

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2012, 04:59:28 AM »

That's true, Jesus prayed to God, He called Him Father..

Also in this verse,

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Stephen is full of Spirit at that time and the Spirit inspired Stephen to pray. We know that the Spirit is truth and surely the Spirit guided him, that even though Stephen saw both the Father and the Son, he prayed to Jesus. He prayed to  (resurrected) Jesus.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2012, 05:48:22 AM »

That's true, Jesus prayed to God, He called Him Father..

Also in this verse,

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Stephen is full of Spirit at that time and the Spirit inspired Stephen to pray. We know that the Spirit is truth and surely the Spirit guided him, that even though Stephen saw both the Father and the Son, he prayed to Jesus. He prayed to  (resurrected) Jesus.

Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."  John 10:30

Stephen had a vision, not a reality.  If the Father is God and Jesus is God, then you have two Gods.  Yet the scriptures teach that there is One God.  An idea of a Binity is just as wrong as an idea of a Trinity.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2012, 12:35:52 PM »

Just pray.  If He can't hear you and know your heart, what's the point of speaking to Him? 

And don't do it like the pharisees and hypocrites do it.   :) 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

santgem

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2012, 06:32:41 AM »

It doesn't matter whether  Stephen had a vision or literal saw the event, the mere fact that Stephan is full of Spirit. Stephen  saw the glory of God, It is the Glory that Stephen saw. He both saw the Glory of God and Jesus and yet he called Jesus to receive his spirit and  not the God the Father whom he  call to entrust his spirit. I did not say this to lower God the Father but to show that without Jesus without going first to Jesus you can not go to the Father. Again, it is not us going to Jesus but the Will of God that we to go to Jesus.

The below event also explaining by Stephen regarding the God of glory that appeared to Abraham. In another event Ananias explaining that Lord Jesus appeared to Saul in his way to Damascus.
 
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Act 7:55-56

And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, Act 7:2

And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. Act 9:17

Why we have to worry if the Father is God and Jesus is God. Can all your worries add a single moment to your life? Mat 6:27

Or are we another Phillipp's when he say.

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." John 14:8

Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?. John 14:9

Don't you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me. John 14:10

Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do. John 14:11

"I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father. John 14:12

You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father. John 14:13

Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it! John 14:14

"If you love me, obey my commandments. John 14:15

Now it is Jesus who said to ask anything in His name and He will do it. Still doubting. Is anybody can come to Father without Jesus?

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5

Is it a burden to us in this time that we do not know who the One God Is? For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isa 55:8


But we have this, the image of God, Is it not sufficient for us this time? Or can I say to wait for the moment to L. Ray Smith until the full revelation is given to Him.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phl 2:5-11

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Cr 4:4
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jeetkunejimi

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Re: who to pray to??
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2012, 06:18:12 AM »

Hi there fellow traveller,
                                 I personally believe that when I pray my prayer has been CAUSED by God Almighty to be uttered from my lips for a divine purpose, so I guess God already knows who I'm addressing even though I will usually say some thing like, "Father God through your Son Jesus Christ my saviour", but then again I also believe when a Buddhist monk or a Muslim, etc, prays that it is done via God Almighty CAUSING them to do so, also for a divine purpose.

God Almighty CAUSES all prayer! So He knows who we are rapping to even if we don't. I'm excited when I prayer because I know God has CAUSED me to do so, and so I know something is going to happen at some point, even if I'm just driving along and I just want to check in with God Almighty and let Him know what I'm thinking for my benefit (of course He already knows).       

I hope that helps you in some way, I know when I talk to my children or my wife that I don't always need to say their names first then again some times I do need to call out their names. It will be what it will be, God's will is always done. Peace be with you amid all the turmoil that is so necessary to perfect us :).



   
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