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Author Topic: Still need some clarification on this passage, please  (Read 1508 times)

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onelovedread

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Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« on: January 10, 2012, 04:17:50 PM »

Mark 4: 24 And He said to them, "Beware what you are hearing! With what measure you are measuring, it will be measured to you, and it will be added to you. 25 For he who has, it shall be given to him; and he who has not, even what he has shall be taken away from him."

I have been searching through Ray's teachings and still haven't found where he addressed the foregoing. Is this addressed only to the Jews? Or does this apply to the few chosen rather than the called? - a subject on which Ray has taught extensively.
Is this passage a warning to the many who were called but have taken the spiritual "broad way to destruction", who aren't the few (chosen)who take the straight and narrow pathway that leads to eonian life? Anyone?
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Gina

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Re: Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 12:53:26 AM »

Hi, John!   :)

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:  12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

I remember when I was lurking that Kat pointed out in a recent post that this is likely speaking of those in the organized church who have not been given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God.  The seed/Word fell on rocky ground and the deceitfulness of riches and lusts of the world choked out the Word. 

And from our vantage point, their "knowledge" has been stripped/taken from them, because they speak of the things pertaining to God that they know not.  To me they sound like Job's comforters who thought they knew so much of the ways of God, but were stripped of what they knew when Jehovah came riding into town to detract (or, take away) the knowledge they claimed to have about God, because it was not the truth.

The Pharisees and teachers of the law come to my mind.


1 Corinthians 13:1
IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.


I searched high and low for the statement that I saw from Kat not that long ago and I can't find it anywhere.   Maybe Kat or someone else would be able to locate it?

Kind of a choppy reply...  Hope it made a some sense to someone.  Could probably use a little help myself!  lol

Gina
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thetruth

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Re: Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 02:44:11 AM »

John,  Mark 4: 24 And He said to them, "Beware what you are hearing! With what measure you are measuring, it will be measured to you, and it will be added to you. 25 For he who has, it shall be given to him; and he who has not, even what he has shall be taken away from him

This passage speaks to me as one that would cause us to judge ourselves.As in the disciples who were challenged to remove the log in there eye as opposed to the speck in there brother eye.If the measure we are using who ever we are wither Jew, Gentile ,called or chosen is carnal.We are but a clanging symbol.But if the measure we are measuring is Spiritual we can see clearly that we are what they are.But in the end God will take all from the Son of perdition to the image of The Son.
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Gina

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Re: Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 02:56:45 AM »

Okay, this slays me:   ;D

Thetruth:
Quote
This passage speaks to me as one that would cause us to judge ourselves. As in the disciples who were challenged to remove the log in there eye as opposed to the speck in there brother eye If the measure we are using who ever we are wither Jew, Gentile ,called or chosen is carnal.We are but a clanging symbol.But if the measure we are measuring is Spiritual we can see clearly that we are what they are. 

And this brings healing to my bones:   ;D ;D

Quote
But in the end God will take all from the Son of perdition to the image of The Son.

Thank you.  I love it.
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Kat

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Re: Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 11:05:02 AM »


Hi onelovedread,

Mark 4: 24 And He said to them, "Beware what you are hearing! With what measure you are measuring, it will be measured to you, and it will be added to you. 25 For he who has, it shall be given to him; and he who has not, even what he has shall be taken away from him."

Well I could not find where Ray has explained this verse, nor could I find what Gina was referring to. But I did think about a verse that may fit with what is being said here.

1Cor 3:10  According to the grace of God which is given to me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let every man be careful how he builds on it.
v. 11  For any other foundation can no one lay than the one being laid, who is Jesus Christ.
v. 12  And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
v. 13  each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

If you see in verse 12 one's works could be "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble," this of course is both the good and the bad that we develop in our character. Now in verse 14 we see that in judgement the good (gold, silver, precious stones) will remain. Maybe this is what is being spoken of in Mark 4 "he who has, it shall be given to him." But we see in 1Cor 3 there is also "wood, hay, stubble" and these are the bad/evil character traits that verse 15 says "shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss," now this sounds like "what he has shall be taken away from him," from Mark 4.

But the most important thing to remember is that even after our works are tried in the fire and though we "shall suffer loss," ultimately all "shall be saved, yet so as by fire. "

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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mharrell08

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Re: Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 11:53:08 AM »

Mark 4: 24 And He said to them, "Beware what you are hearing! With what measure you are measuring, it will be measured to you, and it will be added to you. 25 For he who has, it shall be given to him; and he who has not, even what he has shall be taken away from him."

I have been searching through Ray's teachings and still haven't found where he addressed the foregoing. Is this addressed only to the Jews? Or does this apply to the few chosen rather than the called? - a subject on which Ray has taught extensively.
Is this passage a warning to the many who were called but have taken the spiritual "broad way to destruction", who aren't the few (chosen)who take the straight and narrow pathway that leads to eonian life? Anyone?


Hello John,

This is addressed to whoever hears the parables that Jesus is speaking. This admonishment comes in the middle of many parables.

In verses 1-9, Jesus gives the parable of the sower and the seed. In verses 10-12, Jesus gives the purpose of this and all parables:

Mark 4:10-12  ...when He was alone, those around Him [Jesus] with the twelve asked Him about the parable. And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that 'Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.

In verses 13-20, Jesus explains the parable of the sower...but with another parable. In verses 21-25 (the verses in your original question), Jesus then gives another parable where He likens understanding and knowledge to light. Light is like understanding & knowledge in certain ways: They both allow you to see clearly and give you direction in darkness:

Mark 4:21-25  Also He said to them, “Is a lamp brought to be put under a basket or under a bed? Is it not to be set on a lampstand? [Comment - Does God keep His knowledge and wisdom for Himself like one would keep light hidden away? Would He not share His understanding like one would share a light on a lampstand?]

For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.” [Comment - For anything that God has yet to be revealed shall not be kept secret but shall be brought forth like light]

Then He said to them, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given. [Comment - Listen and hear. With the same measure you use (TO HEAR and SEEK UNDERSTANDING), it will be measured to you (you will begin to understand by how much you seek the Kingdom...you get what you put in).]

For whoever has, to him more will be given; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.” [Comment - To whom has understanding, which comes from seeking the Kingdom, more will be given. But whoever does not have, because they did not seek the Kingdom, whatever understanding he does have will be taken away.]


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Gina

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Re: Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 01:13:09 PM »

I've removed my reply upon further consideration.   :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 12:31:42 PM by Gina »
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onelovedread

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Re: Still need some clarification on this passage, please
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 01:23:59 PM »

Thank you, all for your insight and for opening up this passage for my understanding. I did not see it from that perspective, so this has been truly a learning experience for me. I tell you, God's Word can not be understood merely on a mental plane, but has to be taken in spiritually. And as Ray always teaches, we have to pay attention to all the words and to what comes before and after the passage we're examining.
I really get what you're saying, Marques about the application we give to the Word, and that if we don't seek to go deeper, then we are in danger of losing even the little understanding we may have. Ain't that the truth!
I really appreciate all the sharing. Thanks guys.
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