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Author Topic: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)  (Read 2601 times)

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patmokgoko

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Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« on: February 18, 2012, 01:57:43 AM »

Hi family, Is Matthew 25:31 talking about the second coming or final judgment, if this is only the second coming then it cannot be related to verses 41 & 46.If this (Matt 25:31) is the second coming of the Lord then I perceive that the final judgment will come only after the one thousand year rule of Christ.In the milenium rule the dead unbelievers still sleep (Rev 20:4-6) then how can final judgment happen without them.However if this is the final judgment then when was or did the second coming take place?How do they talk about one thousand year rule but refer to the punishment as "everlasting"? Please help!
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thetruth

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 02:16:44 AM »

Hello patmokgoko

I am pretty sure that Rev-20-5-6 are Spurious passages...not in the original manuscriptes.I know that you can find a list of them on BT somewhere on the home page.
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Duane

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 02:56:11 AM »

Pat M...some of the flaws of the KJV are the non-understanding and mistranslation of eon, eonian and anything "time related"--as well as not differentiating between hell, hades, lake of fire, gehenna, outer darkness, et. al.

I looked up the verses and then read the commentary of the NKJV and it was absurd---

CLV translation: vs. 4-7 "....and the souls of those executed because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who didn't worship the wild beast or it's image, and did not get the emblem on their forehead or on their hand--they also live with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead do not live UNTIL the thousand years should be finished).  This is the former resurrection.  - parenthesis: theirs   caps: mine
6. Happy and holy is he who is he who is having part of the former resurrection.  Over these the second death has no jurisdiction, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years.
7. And when the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail. And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth---".

I have no personal comment, as I wouldn't pretend to have a knowledgeable understanding,  but I thought the translation would help you.   
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patmokgoko

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 02:35:12 PM »

Thanks, what I wanted to know was this that: because this is the centre pillar of the "fundamentalists", how do they reconcile the two i.e Matt 25:31 & Rev 20:4-6.If Matt 25:31 is what they call rapture then it surely can not line up with their beloved "everlasting punishment" in verse 46, but 1000 age abiding/age pruning.However if they insist that this is the final judgment then when was the second coming?I am just trying to scripturally seperate this Matt 25:31 and Rev 20:11-12
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mharrell08

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 03:50:15 PM »

Thanks, what I wanted to know was this that: because this is the centre pillar of the "fundamentalists", how do they reconcile the two i.e Matt 25:31 & Rev 20:4-6.If Matt 25:31 is what they call rapture then it surely can not line up with their beloved "everlasting punishment" in verse 46, but 1000 age abiding/age pruning.However if they insist that this is the final judgment then when was the second coming?I am just trying to scripturally seperate this Matt 25:31 and Rev 20:11-12


I'm not sure what you mean by 'scripturally separate' these verses when they both are a testimony of the same event.

Also, why are we trying to make sense of what Christian fundamentalists believe? That's an exercise in confusion in itself.
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patmokgoko

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 10:43:20 AM »

I did not realize that these two (Matt 25:31 & Rev 20:4-6) are same events, I thought Matt 25 is for age reigning of Christ and Rev 20 is final judgment.I still continue to meditate this mystery.
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mharrell08

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 12:35:08 PM »

I did not realize that these two (Matt 25:31 & Rev 20:4-6) are same events, I thought Matt 25 is for age reigning of Christ and Rev 20 is final judgment.I still continue to meditate this mystery.


Christ's reign in the next age is judgment. What is 'final judgment' and how would it be different than the judgment during Christ reign? This is why I said it is confusing trying to assimilate Christian fundamentalist teachings with the truth, it won't fit.

Did you see the links given of spurious passages and how 'the dead lived not again until 1000 years finished' is NOT in the original scriptures?
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Shawn Fainn

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 02:43:45 PM »

Did you see the links given of spurious passages and how 'the dead lived not again until 1000 years finished' is NOT in the original scriptures?

This has been a difficult thing for me to get past as well. Having to 'unlearn' a lot of those spurious passages and rebuild the truth that we know can be a difficult process.

I often find myself having to go back and re-read a lot of the material here to get it right.
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patmokgoko

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Re: Is the second coming the final judgment (Matt 25:31)
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 06:37:54 PM »

I see what you mean.The problem is that I was teaching on Matt 25:31 that it is not the final judgment therefore "everlasting punishment" in verse 46 can not and will not be the appropriate translation.Sorry if I seemed to be on the opposite lane.
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