Ray Seeking Help

[Craig]

Can anyone on our Forum understand what it is that this man cannot
comprehend regarding my paper on Hell is a Christian Hoax?

Thanks,

Ray

Hello,
I read your article http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html a lot was revealed to me, I'm still very confused, i just cant piece it all together.  i just need one thing please: what is the bottom line/ summary or the teaching.Im just seeking the truth despite my feeble understanding.
Thank you.

Dear Segum:  I really am at a loss as to what it is that you mean by "the bottom line summary of the teaching?"
I spent nearly a whole year on that paper and didn't leave very many stones unturned, so I can't imagine just
what it is that you think I left out that is of major importance?  Perhaps re-word you question.

God be with you,

Ray

[AK4]

I think he doesnt understand the love of God or either he has some "idol of the heart" that he just dont want to let go thats preventing him from getting it.

JMHO

[mharrell08]

Can anyone on our Forum understand what it is that this man cannot
comprehend regarding my paper on Hell is a Christian Hoax?

Thanks,

Ray

Hello,
I read your article http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html a lot was revealed to me, I'm still very confused, i just cant piece it all together.  i just need one thing please: what is the bottom line/ summary or the teaching.Im just seeking the truth despite my feeble understanding.
Thank you.

Dear Segum:  I really am at a loss as to what it is that you mean by "the bottom line summary of the teaching?"
I spent nearly a whole year on that paper and didn't leave very many stones unturned, so I can't imagine just
what it is that you think I left out that is of major importance?  Perhaps re-word you question.

God be with you,

Ray

I think Segum is asking 'what does it all mean?'. I would simply tell him that the paper is a study to disprove the Christian belief of eternal hell and show that the plan God has for humanity is for all to be saved from sin & death.


Marques

[Gina]

I would do as Ray did and ask him to rephrase his question.   

How is it that a lot was revealed to him but he doesn't get the bottom line? 

He's clearly articulate and not feeble-minded at all because, although he used commas where periods should have been, and neglected to add spaces in between his sentences and neglected to capitalize the word "I," his sentences were well structured (even if his question makes not one bit of sense).

What is the bottom line? 

Answer:  HELL IS A CHRISTIAN HOAX and Bill Wiese is a fraud of the _lowest caliber!

[Akira329]

I don't blame the guy for not getting the implications at first.
He just isn't seeing the salvation of all.(The BIG picture)

Like Marques, I would tell him the same. Its a paper disproving hell and showing that God will save all.
Maybe then he could form a better question around this thought.

[John9362]

I only understand this, Segum should go back to:

http://bible-truths.com  read the whole site 2-3 times and if he's still "very confused" then write back to Ray.

One can't just read 1 sentence or 1 paragraph or 1 paper to get the full picture. Read the whole site !!

[Mbongiseni]

Hi All!

I think the problem is some people can't give credit where it's due; He's paid all the tithes now he's broke. He can't afford to pay attention! The man needs to read and read the articles, otherwise it's not going to make sense to him.

Mbo

[mavis92379]

I think he learnt a lot of truth from the paper but hes still not sure how some of his false beliefs line up with the "a lot was revealed" to him. He needs time to put it all together and someone who can answer questions for him.

Well what about the thief on the cross ?? lol

[bob]

I would tell Segum  as he stated, "I'm just seeking the truth despite my feeble understanding". That's a good place to start.. And he said "a lot was revealed to me," Good, God has started to open his mind. He then says " i just need one thing please: what is the bottom line."    Sounds to me like the rich young man talking to Jesus, he lacked just one thing "whats the bottom line". Jesus answered sell all you own and follow me. He wanted a quick fix, he got it and didn't like it. Same applies here, there are no quick fixes. The bottom line is read the article again. If  "a lot was revealed to me," as he stated  the first time, ask God to reveal the rest the next time. Throw out all the things you were taught in the so called  "church", from your mind. Sell it, Get rid of it, God is not a God of confusion,  and follow the teaching here with the SCRIPTURE and don't be so presumptuous as the rich man who thought he had it all. Bottom line is only God can reveal the truth to him, just ask. If he doesn't get it we know why.  Hope this makes sense. Bob

[arion]

Q.    i just need one thing please: what is the bottom line/ summary or the teaching....

A.  Hell is a Christian hoax.

[Craig]

Sounds to me like the rich young man talking to Jesus, he lacked just one thing "whats the bottom line". Jesus answered sell all you own and follow me. He wanted a quick fix, he got it and didn't like it.

Bob, thanks that story finally made sense to me.  I had thought that Jesus was asking too much of this person, but you are right.  This man wanted a quick fix and Jesus told him the quick fix, knowing he was not able to do it. There is no shortcuts to salvation, we will all go through the fire and end up being all in all with God, it is a tough journey and finally being "saved" is the toughest thing we will ever experience.

Craig

[Shawn Fainn]

Can anyone on our Forum understand what it is that this man cannot
comprehend regarding my paper on Hell is a Christian Hoax?

Thanks,

Ray

Hello,
I read your article http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html a lot was revealed to me, I'm still very confused, i just cant piece it all together.  i just need one thing please: what is the bottom line/ summary or the teaching.Im just seeking the truth despite my feeble understanding.
Thank you.

Dear Segum:  I really am at a loss as to what it is that you mean by "the bottom line summary of the teaching?"
I spent nearly a whole year on that paper and didn't leave very many stones unturned, so I can't imagine just
what it is that you think I left out that is of major importance?  Perhaps re-word you question.

God be with you,

Ray

If he was like me, he probably has a few Scriptures in the back of his mind he's not clear on that are holding him up (some may linger in one's subconscious). For example, Jesus telling the thief: "today you will be with me in paradise" - I was hung up on that for awhile til I found out it was a simple comma placement that made it make sense. There were a few others, but eventually everything 'fell in to place'. I imagine it will be the same for Segum. There are just so many ways to approach exposing this doctrine that it sometimes takes awhile to fill all the holes, if you will. Sounds like he has the desire to learn, so he's on the right track at least.

[cjwood]

i don't know if segum is a forum member, but it would be such a great help to him.  the replies to this post have been encouraging and it would be a blessing for segum to read them.


claudia

[Gina]

I'm very suspicious of Segum's question.  (Segum, if you're out there, I hope that doesn't offend you.) 

This is what strikes me as odd: 

How is it that he knew how to find Ray's email address?  It's not like it's in the Hell is a Christian Hoax paper.  And it's not like it's at the tippy top of the B-T home page.  You have to actually go to the home page, then scroll down through loads of articles and emails (Why not open a couple of them?  Not that it's necessary, because most of what's in the 23 min in hell paper is already in the other articles and emails).  Then, if you're paying attention you'll find the link to Ray's email--you really have to be looking, searching for it, is what I'm trying to say. 

So, why was it so easy to find the link to email Ray, but so difficult to understand the 23 min in hell paper? 

I'm not apologizing for my suspicions, but that doesn't mean I think I'm better than Segum.  I know I'm no better than Segum.  There but for the grace of God go I.

Dear Segum, if you're reading this, please do me a favor and rephrase your question.

[Akira329]

I'm very suspicious of Segum's question.  (Segum, if you're out there, I hope that doesn't offend you.) 

This is what strikes me as odd: 

How is it that he knew how to find Ray's email address?  It's not like it's in the Hell is a Christian Hoax paper.  And it's not like it's at the tippy top of the B-T home page.  You have to actually go to the home page, then scroll down through loads of articles and emails (Why not open a couple of them?  Not that it's necessary, because most of what's in the 23 min in hell paper is already in the other articles and emails).  Then, if you're paying attention you'll find the link to Ray's email--you really have to be looking, searching for it, is what I'm trying to say. 

So, why was it so easy to find the link to email Ray, but so difficult to understand the 23 min in hell paper? 

I'm not apologizing for my suspicions, but that doesn't mean I think I'm better than Segum.  I know I'm no better than Segum.  There but for the grace of God go I.

Dear Segum, if you're reading this, please do me a favor and rephrase your question.

Gina,
I don't find it odd at all.
The "Hell is a Christian Hoax" paper is right in the middle of the screen when you first load the website.
Which was probably a strategic move by Dennis or Ray. I know I would have done it!
Also virtually all websites post contact info at the bottom of the page.
It would have been natural for this person to scroll to the bottom when they thought they had a question.

Go easy on them. Putting the pieces together is not easy for everyone. Besides if this person really wants to know they will ask many more questions.

Antaiwan

[John9362]

Segum has gone to read the whole website 3 times, so hopefuly we'll hear from him when he's finished 

[arion]

It does take time for a lot of folks but all in God's timing.  It's no accident that either he or us 'stumbled' across the website.  For me the tithing paper caught my eye and the first LOF paper I thought Ray was a crank.  Yet, 6 months later God brought me back to actually read and consider the teachings and I am here yet today and that was 5 or 6 years ago.  All in time.

[Gina]

True, Arion.  I remember my own concerns ("but, Ray, Elijah was transported to heaven..." to which there turned out to be a very good answer), but "very confused"?  uh-huh.  There's no excuse for being "very confused."   Unless you're blind.

Antaiwan, I call it like I see it.  Ray asked a question and I answered it.    I suppose I could have simply said, "Nope, can't understand why Segum is having a hard time understanding," and left it at that.  But, like, everyone else here who responded, I called it like I see it.  But I do empathize with your feelings regarding Segum.  I remember when I used to believe everyone was inherently innocent.  But then I woke up.