Matt 25:46 " the just for temporary life and the unjust for temporary punishment

Started by patmokgoko, March 30, 2012, 01:58:26 PM

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patmokgoko

March 30, 2012, 01:58:26 PM
Hi family please help me out, I came across this question, regarding Matt 25:46, if the ungodly will be punished or chastened just for an age so should the life of the godly be. If the word eternal means "age" for the wicked it should also mean "age" life for the believer. How can that be? I know the answer is lying somewhere.

Kat

#2
March 30, 2012, 04:24:40 PM

Hi patmokgoko,

Here is an email that should help you with this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4445.0.html -------------

  Jesus had a special REWARD/AWARD for all His followers. What was it? Heaven? NO. Eternal life? NO. All humanity will be given immortality which is in effect eternal, everlasting life. So what is so special that only the CHOSEN FEW will receive it? It is ruling and reigning and judging with Jesus Christ!  This reign is "eonian" or "age-lasting." It is decidedly NOT "eternal," as we are plainly told that it will END (I Cor. 15:25). Jesus rules only "UNTIL" He puts all enemies under His feet, at which time He hands over the reign of the Kingdom to His God and Father (Verses 27-28). All enemies will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS and ultimately be saved (Isa. 26:9, I Tim. 2:4, I Tim. 4:10, Phil. 2:9-11, Eph. 1:10, etc., etc., etc).

And so, those who do not quality to rule, reign, and judge with Christ, will themselves BE JUDGED. And judgment means to set things right. Hence "the [wicked] shall go away into everlasting [Gk: 'eonian'] punishment [Gk: 'chastisement']: but the righteous [the chosen Elect Few[ into life eternal [Gk: 'eonian' also]"  (Matt. 25:46). Aionios is the adjective form of the noun aion. Aion means an "age."  Aionios means that which pertains to an age. Eternus is a Latin word that surprisingly traces it etymology to the Greek word aion. Eternus never, ever meant "endless time" until hundreds of years after the Bible was completed and the Catholic Church decided that aions would be now taught to be "ENDLESS ages." As aion and aionios never meant endless, the word endless had to be affixed to aion and aionos in order to ever give it such a false and erroneous meaning.

The root of "kolasis" means "cutting off," as in pruning a tree. One prunes a tree to make it PRODUCE MORE FRUIT, not to kill it!  The wicked are chastised (judged) for the period of Christ's reign and the Saints reign for the period of Christ's reign. Both periods are the same length--until their purpose has been accomplished. Simple, huh? And Scriptural as well. God will torture no one for all eternity. That is blasphemously insane!!

God be with you,
Ray

lilitalienboi16

#3
March 30, 2012, 06:54:28 PM Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 07:00:30 PM by lilitalienboi16
In Short,

Jesus never promised us ETERNAL life, what He promised us was IMMORTALITY and those who overcome;  "Age-Abiding life," which last for a duration but ends.

Immortality however does not mean Eternal life. It simply means - DEATH - LESS - NESS, WITHOUT DYING, NEVER TO BE DYING/DEAD.

1 Corinthians 15:53-55 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

In other words, when the ressurected are given immortality, their life never comes to an end not because they were given "Eternal Life" but rather because they were given IMMORTALITY and can no longer die.

As Kat said, Aionion life is for the elect who will rule with Christ, but even that comes to an end because Even Christ must submit Himself to His Father. We are told this lasts for an age. To my understanding, the age of the Great WHITE throne of judgement. (Not BLACK throne :P)

Corinthians 15:26-28 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he [JESUS CHRIST] must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Interesting little tid bit; The lake of fire is called the...

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

The last enemy destroyed is death.. which means even the lake of fire will come to end, as it too, is a form of death. The second death to be exact. So the lake of fire can't last forever ;)
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Cypress

#4
March 31, 2012, 06:19:59 PM
For the life of me...I can never remember it right. I get confused with the "millennial" reign and what happens after the second resurrection and when some are cast into the LOF. The elect are ruling all along until He delivers everything to His Father?

I don't mean to bring outside influences...but I've seen people discussing the eons, and that there are at least 5 of them. Does Ray talk about this? I don't recall him ever writing on it.

lilitalienboi16

#5
March 31, 2012, 06:41:25 PM Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 06:53:39 PM by lilitalienboi16
Quote from: Cypress on March 31, 2012, 06:19:59 PM
For the life of me...I can never remember it right. I get confused with the "millennial" reign and what happens after the second resurrection and when some are cast into the LOF. The elect are ruling all along until He delivers everything to His Father?

I don't mean to bring outside influences...but I've seen people discussing the eons, and that there are at least 5 of them. Does Ray talk about this? I don't recall him ever writing on it.

In my humble impinion I don't think it's important as to how many there are.

Ray probably does mention briefly what would be a logical numbering to how many Eons have been and how one could logically differentiate this from the start until the time of judgement and the Father becoming All in All but I believe its IMPOSSIBLE to know how many there have been or will be exactly.

If I had to try and understand from what we do know, I would approach it this way.

We know there was an age before the universe existed[1]. There was an age before Jesus Christ existed[2]. There is the age of the world and humanity [3]. There will be the age of judgement[4]. There will be the age after that in which God finally becomes all in all[5]. To my understanding this is how one could logically potentially number them, if we wanted to, but I don't think their exists a scripture which states how many exact eons have been because what about before when God was here without Christ? We aren't told how many there were, there could have been way more than just 1. What about after when God becomes all in all, how many will there be from there? Infinite? How does one number that?

I hope that makes sense. This is just how I see it and I could be completely wrong. I'm unfamiliar with a scripture that states a specific amount of ages which have been or will be. I could be entirely wrong though so... take what I said with a grain of salt :P

P.S. I remember reading one time here on this website that the idea in revalations that the dead lived not until after the first ressurection, aka didn't come up until a second ressurection was a spurious idea. In other words, the text didn't exist in the oldest greek manuscripts of the new testement.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I believe it was the part I have bolded that is spurious to the text. (Yup, I was correct, ref; http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6638.msg53239.html#msg53239)

So in other words, the rest of the dead, come up with the elect in the "first" and only ressurection but they don't come up with glorified bodies like the elect, they must go through the lake of fire aka be judged, while the elect already endured judgement in this life and overcame.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

Love in Christ,

Alex

1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Cypress

#6
March 31, 2012, 07:07:22 PM
Yikes! Seems like I have more studying to do. Thanks Alex!

lilitalienboi16

#7
March 31, 2012, 07:20:29 PM
Quote from: Cypress on March 31, 2012, 07:07:22 PM
Yikes! Seems like I have more studying to do. Thanks Alex!

No problem! :P

1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

sarahfromcolorado

#8
April 01, 2012, 05:59:26 PM
You could also think of it like this:
Those who have grace operating in them now (the chosen) will have life, apposed to chastisement, during the coming ages (aionion life). But those who do not have grace operating in them will endure chastisement in the coming ages. Maybe we are learning about the quality of life during those ages as apposed to simply duration.

Also Ray said something like "a statement of fact doesn't limit the thing being spoken of to that fact." So just because we know that we will have life as apposed to chastisement for the ages that doesn't mean our life has to end when/if those ages end. Even Christ is said to live for the "aions of aions" (ages of ages). Are we to assume that once those ages end Christ then ceases to live?

But like lilitalienboi16 said we are never promised eternal life in Scripture but instead immortality.
So when those ages that are marked by life as apposed to death end that doesn't mean that our life ends. It can't seeing that they will be made immortal.


Also you may want to ask whoever posed that question what sense "everlasting chastisment" makes. Chastisement has the goal of correction. If it were everlasting that goal could never be met. Also you could ask them how God can be the savior of all men, especially (that means not exclusively) of those who believe (1 Timothy 4:10) if he intends on chastising / burning the hell out of the majority of his creation forever.
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