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Troubles about Paul now...real apostle or not?
Dave in Tenn:
While you're searching, search here. I don't think you'll find any crazy talk.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9742.0.html
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on April 07, 2012, 10:27:10 AM ---you say this is blasphemy to question Paul. It is the same mindset for those who call it blasphemy to question the Catholic POPE or those who hold high positions in church. It is the very thing that got us kicked out of church. Always Question, Always be through- Always ask hard questions. Always. It led you here to bible truths, didn't it?
It is not the end of the road, so you know that. We are always learning.. Truths are always revealing.. It is beautiful as we grow more and more.
Of course scriptures teach we are to question always, test always... It is already clear that people here are uncomfortable questioning Paul. I understand that completely. For me.. something just doesn't' seem right. call it a gut feeling. Something tells me to look closer. Of course There are websites everywhere that talks crazy things about Paul... they are not even concise at all. It's crazy talk. There are also crazy talk about Jesus or God, and whatever.. It is the nuggets in a field that you find.. you have to dig., You have to learn,, you have to study, you have to search.. There will be always crazy talk everywhere. There's bound to be nuggets that make sense.
Remember the scriptures when Paul was first converted and wanted to join the apostles and the Apostles didn't trust him either??? It is much later, maybe years that Peter says its okay to trust him. It is the same with us.. Imagine someone who killed your families, best friends, disciples, and so on, suddenly say he was converted. Of course you would be apprehensive at first. It's a matter of time and knowing Paul. I don't do it by blind acceptance. I look. You learn best this way... not by blind acceptance. I have to know Paul first. It is the same way as knowing Jesus and God. We search.
If its easy for you to accept Paul just because Peter clearly sees Paul as a brother. Then so be it. its for you. I just don't understand why Aninas-a man of God and who in the scriptures say is also zealous of the law healed Paul when he was blind, Why James confronted Paul and it seems like James were zealous of the Law as well and with other elders. Why did the Jews Christians in Asia who was apparently with James accuse Paul of teaching lawlessness? Why didn't they buy his story? It is the little things. I jave to search for myself.
Denise
--- End quote ---
Wait a minute here Denise. You are seriously confused. There is a huge difference between questioning the pope and questioning paul. Paul is called by the other apostles, "Beloved brother" and a man "FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT." The apostles NEVER call the pope that. The apostle paul also has scripture that is INSPIRED BY GOD and FOUND in GOD'S WORD. The pope has NO SCRIPTURES that are canonized in the Word of God.
2 Peter 3:15 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"
Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.
Luke even says God did special miracles by the hands of paul:
Acts 19:11 "And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:"
People here are unconformable questioning paul because THERE IS NO GOOD REASON. You won't even accept the words of the apostles as good authority not to question him. Not just peters BUT LUKES ALSO! Luke is the one who wrote that paul was FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. These words are INSPIRED BY GOD. You have already decided in your mind that paul is a heretic, you have twisted the word to your own destruction. You would rather believe that damnable heresy than believe what the very words of God tell you, what the APOSTLES WHO KNEW PAUL WROTE OF HIM!
There is nothing wrong in questioning Denise, but notice we did not say questioning is the issue. We said BELIEVING that paul is a heretic is the issue. You've decided in your mind, regardless of what is said by those of authority (Peter, Luke, THE WORD OF GOD) that you would rather interpret individual verses in such a way as to pit them against what the apostles have said and thereby creating a contradiction and blasphemous doctrine.
You can be alone in that and I will not stand idly by why you say it's no different than questioning the pope. That is a LIE there is a HUGE difference and I just layed it out for you.
Anyone who believes paul is a heretic is completely lost on this matter refusing to believe the scriptures. Treading places I will not go.
I'm responding because I can't allow your post to cause doubt in the minds of those who are young thereby causing them confusion and being mislead. There is ample reason, scriptural proof, to NEVER consider paul anything less than a BELOVED BROTHER FILLED WITH HOLY SPIRIT, you have nothing but your own interpretations on what paul ment when he spoke, that creates doubt in your head as to pauls authenticity but we can see through plains statements in the Word of God that paul was no heretic.
God be with you,
Alex
Dave in Tenn:
Another attempt for Gene.
There is no mention in Ephesians of false teachers or prophets or 'those who say they are apostles but are not'. The Ephesians were overcoming the world, the flesh and the devil. Paul mentions all of these...but no mention of false preachers, apostles, prophets. FALSE preachers, apostles and prophets are not the confusion and sin of the world, but of the CHURCH. There is no heathen sinner out there claiming to be an Apostle or Minister of the Gospel. As soon as he might, he's a "christian". It's axiomatic that these are professing christians.
I don't know of another church to which Paul wrote where he did NOT write against those who came (or were to come) 'preaching' lies, or presenting themselves as Apostles but were not, or some other spiritual match to those terms.
Begs the question. Why wouldn't Paul warn or try to turn the believers away from false apostles in his letter to Ephesus when it was such an imporant part of his message to others? Could it be because the Ephesians had not been seduced into recieving or believing or bearing them? Had they tried "those saying", and found them false? Did they refuse to bear the evil men that the Corinthians endured/enjoyed?
Why would the Spirit say 'write' in Rev. 2:2 that they had?
"I am aware of your acts, and your toil, and your endurance, and that you can not bear evil men, and you try those saying that they themselves are apostles, and they are not, and you found them false..."
Read Ephesians to see if Paul agreed with the Spirit in Rev. 2.2.
I hate to turn this "nice letter" into a proof text against whatever -ism is causing you to want to reject Paul. But it sure sounds to me like the ministry of Paul WORKED in Ephesus regarding "trying those", and that he had no need to write 'hard words' to them after he left them.
newgene87:
Thank you Dave for your kind words. Thank you so much. Cause even I've been takn out of context smh. To squash it all; I was only SHAKEY, and I came to my family/forum for guidance that's it. Wasn't expecting the assault. Thanks tho. I will continue to pray, and like the person, Jesus is still the Savior of the Word
Dave in Tenn:
Yes, Jesus is still the Savior of the world. Praise God, the Savior actually saves. He saves us from sin, from error, from babylon, from blasphemy and heresy, from every lying spirit that seeks to divert us from the truth, and from every other evil. Each in his own turn.
It may seem to you like those who 'believe Paul' are the 'many'. I don't for a minute believe that's true. "Many" don't because they don't see/understand. "Many" don't because they leave out, ignore, or 'preach' away what he says about the salvation of all. And "many" don't because they don't obey.
Jesus saved Paul. Jesus made him an Apostle. Jesus inspired his life, sufferings, and his writings.
Hang in there.
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