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Troubles about Paul now...real apostle or not?
Dave in Tenn:
This thread is hanging by a thread. :) If it's gone on too long, blame me.
Gene, real deep spiritual truth is hard to come by. Many would rather believe the lie. I understand where at least some of your 'concerns' come from as I've had some of them myself. They don't hold up under closer reading or other witnesses of Scripture which don't contradict. I couldn't be happier (in my own case) that they do not. Peter said that parts of Paul's writings were hard to understand, but Peter understood them. Maybe you and I and the rest of us should be striving and praying to understand them too.
It seems to me that a brief conversation/discussion with someone else has eroded your faith. If that's just my imagination and not the case, then I'm sorry...though although I spent three hours trying to allay just ONE of your issues, you didn't even take the few seconds necessary to answer my questions--so it's at least understandable if I misunderstood.
I suppose in my ignorance it might be possible that you came here already convinced of Paul's alleged heresy. I'd just have to refer you to the rules if that's the case.
It's discouraging to think of someone cutting out so much wisdom, information, practical real-life advice, psychological understanding, and help available in Paul's writings. But let me tell you something I believe to be truth. IF you decide to go the way you've indicated and 'believe and obey' only the words Jesus spoke, in the course of doing so, you will come to understand Paul, though it will be the hard way. What a shame to let a religious hobbyist rob you of that treasure.
Dig deeper and try to 'get it' now before you toss it away. THAT'S why this thread is still running.
DougE6:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on April 07, 2012, 12:05:12 AM ---I was wondering the Satanic source of this screwball idea that Paul was not a true apostle and his writings were false because those propounding it in this thread didn't seem to be ........
So I googled "******* ****, ***** *******". Man o man, you wouldn't believe the religious nuts behind that concept!
Some of the phrasings and ideas used by the false teachers on the other websites were also used by those pushing the ideas in this thread.
I had never before heard of anyone questioning Paul and his writings as scriptural. But I guess you can find any nutty idea on the internet. The false teachers on the internet seem to be sacred names and Old Testament oriented and Calvinists who do not like Paul's emphasis on universal salvation.
I feel the need to take a shower. Every form of foul idea can be found and justified on the internet.
--- End quote ---
John from Kentucky, I could not agree more.
lilitalienboi16:
I know I said I would leave this thread alone but I just wanted to agree with John and Rene.
I really feel that believing Paul is a heretic, is blasphemy.
Dave in Tenn:
I know that there are a lot of -isms that don't regard Paul. He gets it from every direction. Many times these -isms are easy to spot. There are also 'believers' in the whole scripture who do not regard Paul except by lip-service. That's been the story of my babylonian-captivity.
Paul's writings are right there with every believer from the new-born babe to the maturing. I'm not very 'mature' but as a maturing believer, I'm confident that they will continue to be there. The Gospel of the Kingdom is true.
I'm aware that this thread pushes the envelope of what is the purpose of the forum. If I've been wrong to leave it open, then I've been wrong and will learn from it. I hoped in the beginning that the replies from our members would be helpful for each other and for those reading, including any here that might be 'on the fence' or 'almost persuaded'. I've not been disappointed. If we're finished, there's no reason to leave it open.
Revilonivek:
you say this is blasphemy to question Paul. It is the same mindset for those who call it blasphemy to question the Catholic POPE or those who hold high positions in church. It is the very thing that got us kicked out of church. Always Question, Always be through- Always ask hard questions. Always. It led you here to bible truths, didn't it?
It is not the end of the road, so you know that. We are always learning.. Truths are always revealing.. It is beautiful as we grow more and more.
Of course scriptures teach we are to question always, test always... It is already clear that people here are uncomfortable questioning Paul. I understand that completely. For me.. something just doesn't' seem right. call it a gut feeling. Something tells me to look closer. Of course There are websites everywhere that talks crazy things about Paul... they are not even concise at all. It's crazy talk. There are also crazy talk about Jesus or God, and whatever.. It is the nuggets in a field that you find.. you have to dig., You have to learn,, you have to study, you have to search.. There will be always crazy talk everywhere. There's bound to be nuggets that make sense.
Remember the scriptures when Paul was first converted and wanted to join the apostles and the Apostles didn't trust him either??? It is much later, maybe years that Peter says its okay to trust him. It is the same with us.. Imagine someone who killed your families, best friends, disciples, and so on, suddenly say he was converted. Of course you would be apprehensive at first. It's a matter of time and knowing Paul. I don't do it by blind acceptance. I look. You learn best this way... not by blind acceptance. I have to know Paul first. It is the same way as knowing Jesus and God. We search.
If its easy for you to accept Paul just because Peter clearly sees Paul as a brother. Then so be it. its for you. I just don't understand why Aninas-a man of God and who in the scriptures say is also zealous of the law healed Paul when he was blind, Why James confronted Paul and it seems like James were zealous of the Law as well and with other elders. Why did the Jews Christians in Asia who was apparently with James accuse Paul of teaching lawlessness? Why didn't they buy his story? It is the little things. I jave to search for myself.
Denise
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