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In OR OUT?

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thetruth:
I have been thinking about this for a little while.If you ask the people of denomanations or non-denomanations out there.Will everyone in their church enter the Kingdom most will say No!And of course they would say Heaven not Kingdom.But my point is if most say No because they believe that there is always a few who play church like what will happen today.How do they reconcile the many Scriptures such as"No one will pluck them out of my hand" and "If you confess me before man I will confess you before my Father which is in heaven."The Scriptures proclaim once you Truly belong to him he is not going to lose you! So today many will go and get Saved as they know it..only to end up unsaved if they dont go to church enough to meet the quota of the church and be deemed a back slider?Any thoughts?

octoberose:
Hi Truth,
 Well, it's not a stretch for me to believe that most people at 'church' believe that most things are beyond our understanding and we are just throwing ourselves on the mercy of God. At least a lot of the honest ones.
 But, to answer your question,they read scriptures such as these that indicated a 'falling away': I Corinthians 9:27, "But I buffet my body and lead it captive, lest having preached to others I should be myself rejected." That was of course Paul speaking. And then Matt. 10:22 talks about enduring to the end and John 15:6, "if any one may not remain in me, he was cast forth without as the branch, and was withered, and they gather them, and cast to fire, and they are burned;" (notice they were with Him and did not Remain in Him). Galatians 6 talks about reaping a harvest if "we do not give up" and Hebrews 6:4-6 says for [it is] impossible for those once enlightened, having tasted also of the heavenly gift, and partakers having became of the Holy Spirit,5 and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age, 6 and having fallen away, again to renew [them] to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame. And the last one for now is II Peter 2: 20-21- 20 for, if having escaped from the pollutions of the world, in the acknowledging of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and by these again being entangled, they have been overcome, become to them hath the last things worse than the first, 21for it were better to them not to have acknowledged the way of the righteousness, than having acknowledged [it], to turn back from the holy command delivered to them. (Young's Literal).
 So, what are we to make of those? Before my days of BT, I would have said that we can't believe in "once saved always saved" because of verses such as these. Now, I have a fuller understanding because God gave Truth to a man named Ray and I believed what I read. Thank you God for open eyes. Now I know that we are in the PROCESS of being saved. Even Paul did not write as if his personal 'status' as the Elect was for sure. God knows who the Elect is because he ELECTED them, but I am not going to declare that I know that I am. My belief in universal salvation does not save me, my friends. God knows my heart and only He sees my motives, my true thoughts, weather my religion is pure or weather the cares of the world will snatch away my first love. Maybe some here feel differently and I understand that, but we will agree that God will save all in the end- because weather it is today or tomorrow, He is Risen and that changed everything.

Dave in Tenn:
It's hard to comment on your observation because there are so many denominations and non-denominations out there.  Every one of them seems to have a different 'definition' for all those terms and a different set of criteria for 'making it' or 'losing it' according to their own doctrine.

My old denomination believed "once saved, always saved'...but they don't know what 'saved' means and surely don't believe Jesus will actually do such a thing for everybody.  Some think that just by affiliation and following the 'rules' they will be the ONLY ones saved. 

I've encountered so many views of what  'backsliding' is, I can't even remember them all.

Ray's transcript here is maybe the closest thing I can think of to put all this denominational babble out of our misery and into the light.  I might want to warn you, though, that you need to understand other concepts before this can really clear out the cobwebs.  I know I did.

Ask if you're unsure.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html   

thetruth:
Hey Dave and Octoberose
Thanks for your replies!I had a friend ask me to pose this question to the forum and see what kind of responses I would get?So i hope others will reply as well.I find it interesting that here at Bt and others who know of Ray real well but are not on the forum.That some seem to have a belief a conviction that they are part of the elect.While others seem to have doubts?Ray seems to me to have a conviction that he is.Someone else I know sees it the same way .But again others not so much.Is it that Ray seems to have conviction as well as many others that because God has opened their eyes to these truths they see this as a confirmation or proof?Really would like the Bt -brass to comment on this...Kat, Deb,Gina,john Kentucky,Samson,Marques ,,and the rest of the awesome bunch!I have no Alternative motive why I ask this.Just would like to get some thoughts.Why is it your believe and see your elect OR why is it your unsure?Paul did say 2-tim-"'on that day I will put on my Crown of Righteousness".must of known something?Thanks to everyone for your time and thoughts if you choose to share.And again thanks Dave and Octoberose!

Kat:

Well I don't see it as a clear cut conviction of being an elect or unsurity. It's about knowing this carnal flesh, I have a conviction that this is the truth and God has opened my eyes to it, I have confidence in that right now. BUT... I am fully aware that circumstances could quickly arise that would carry me to the wayside. It was not until Paul was near the end of his life that he would even could/would state that he had endured to the end, won the race and was an Elect. He actually had stated earlier in the Scripture that he knew he could be rejected/disqualified.

1Co 9:26-27  I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Now also I do believe the elect are sealed by God and can not be lost, it's just that we do not know and can not have certainty that we are an elect/wheat and maybe not a tare. The parable of the wheat and the tare told by Jesus is significant and bears consideration.

A bit of info on tares; baby tare and baby wheat stalk looks exactly the same, in fact they're indistinguishable. The only way to tell the difference is when they both mature in the Spring. At maturity the tare is light weight and lacks substance, but the wheat is heavy and bears fruit (grain). There are tiny black seeds inside the tares and if you eat it, it can cause dizziness and nausea.

So there are tare/non-elect among the wheat/elect that are indistinguishable from one another, in the beginning anyway. I believe Christ will not give us absolute assurity that we are elect because our carnal flesh could not handle that properly, we might become filled with pride or boast. To me it would be presumptuous to have the idea of being elected.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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