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Author Topic: Dr. Ernest Martin  (Read 5643 times)

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Dr. Ernest Martin
« on: April 23, 2012, 11:51:47 PM »

Hi to everyone. Have any of you heard about Dr. Martin? L. Ray has mentioned him as a friend in an email exchange and I looked him up. I really found some of his articles very interesting and he seems to be a gifted teacher. Thanks!

John from Kentucky

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Re: Dr. Ernest Martin
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2012, 01:01:09 AM »

Hi to everyone. Have any of you heard about Dr. Martin? L. Ray has mentioned him as a friend in an email exchange and I looked him up. I really found some of his articles very interesting and he seems to be a gifted teacher. Thanks!

Some of us from the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) remember Ernest Martin as a church leader.  He left the WCG in the early 1970s to pursue his religious studies.

Some of his articles are interesting----but some are way out of bounds of the scriptures.

Remember God's two witnesses.  The scriptures tell us out of the mouths of two or three witnesses let every word be established.

We need a minimum of two scriptures to establish a scriptural truth.  Spiritual must match spiritual, and there can be no contradiction with other scriptures.  God does not lie and His Word does not lie.

With that in mind, it is easy to spot the errors in Ernest Martin's teachings, and there are so many.

If you feel the need to read his articles, ask God to protect you with His Spirit.  Walk softly and carry the big stick of the two witnesses.

Best advice is to avoid Ernest Martin's teachings. 


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Re: Dr. Ernest Martin
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 02:05:08 AM »

Dear Ireland--may I encourage you to be sooo busy ingesting B-T material that you don't have time to "walk on the wild side"?  Get all of it in "hard copy" if you can so you can take it with you when you travel or wait.  You can also underline and make marginal notes--that you can't do on the computer screen. 
(There, no doubt, is good food in every garbage can--but why not just go to the super market and get fresh, reliable food?)
Many of us have found that after we have read all of Ray's materials--it is a great time to start all over and read them again--WHY?  Just to marvel at how much we missed the first time and also how much better we understand what is being said with our "additional light". 
Don't forget books like Julie Ferwerda's "Raising Hell" and  jackson Baer's "What the hell?" to reinforce what you know more in depth. 
My point: There is only so much time on this earth so read what is tried and true by Ray and other B-T'ers.  :-)


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Re: Dr. Ernest Martin
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2012, 10:00:04 AM »

I do appreciate your responses. I have read this site for many years! Should not be a novice by now and by God's grace am not. We can glean truths from other teachers. Jesus said that our righteousness should exceed that of the Pharisees. They themselves did teach some truths from the Torah. I will respond more later as I am off to work now, but wanted to reply to you guys. I am not promoting anything here, but just mentioning that Ray did speak of  him as a "friend". If that is the truth, then Ray himself believes he is not a false teacher if that is what your implying. Looking forward to more dialogue. Thank you


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Re: Dr. Ernest Martin
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 11:02:37 AM »

Hi to everyone. Have any of you heard about Dr. Martin? L. Ray has mentioned him as a friend in an email exchange and I looked him up. I really found some of his articles very interesting and he seems to be a gifted teacher. Thanks!

Hi Ireland,

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Ernest Martin, below I will show a Copy and Paste from a Thread I started long ago regarding His article: The Pagan Soul and this has deceived many People throughout the Centuries paving the way for other Falsehoods, including the various types of Endless Punishment Beliefs.

Dr. Martin believed in the Eventual Salvation of all and shortly before passing away embraced the fact We didn't have " Free Will," He and Ray were good friends and after He died, His foundation including the Web-Site that still exists asked Ray to run the show, but He(Ray) declined. I remember reading that Dr. Martin interpreted Scripture too Physically literal, but at least He was able to grasp the concept that Mankind doesn't have "Free Will," and if You think about, very few people are given the privilege to fully understand that We don't have Free Will.

JFK is right, be cautious when reading material that could confuse or even mislead you, get a strong understanding of knowledge attained from Ray's Explanations, then if you desire, search elsewhere. I've read Universalism type information before coming to bible Truths and after arriving here, but I carefully examine any of this information, discarding what I believe to be incorrect or putting it on the back shelf as unimportant.

For Me anyway, I don't expect or believe it's necessary to know every detail of Scripture for every possible Scripturally related Topic. If I don't fully understand something, I put it on the back burner and wait for God to give Me discernment, in the meantime, I'm not dogmatic about it. Read below excerpt of Dr. Martin from an Old Thread in Blue.

While perusing through my collection of articles from various Universal Sites, I came across something very interesting, that I thought I might share with all of you. Remembering reading one of Rays' E-mail responses where he makes reference to Ernest Martin as one who taught him some of the things he knows, I came across an article Entitled PAGAN DOCTRINE OF THE SOUL, DELIBERATE DECEPTION ! by Ernest L. Martin, which happens to be one of my favorite articles that I've come across thus far. Under the Sub-Heading, The Ancients Admitted they Lied he states, " The primary reason for the invention of the doctrines of a terrible and never-ending Hades, and its supporting doctrine of inherent immortality, was clearly that of state expediency. the common people were told false hoods to keep them subject to the state. This was especially true among the Greeks and pre-eminently among the Romans. Pagan religion and all its ramifications was simply manufactured to control the masses. The doctrines of a hell immediately after death which signified that people had inherent immortality were meant to scare the common people into being faithful citizens. Philosophers, Theologians and Statesmen developed what became known by First Century B.C. as the "double doctrine" or the "double truth" teaching. The populace were told one thing, a pack of lies and the intellectuals, actually those initiated into the mysteries as we will see were told the naked truth. It is no wonder Paul said that the leaders were without excuse, they knew better, they hold back the truth, (Rom.1:18). The leaders would not tell the people the facts, which they were very much aware of. Pythagoras in the sixth century B.C., Plato, Aristotle and even those of the first century always had two doctrines. Invariably their disciples were told the truth ( as much as the Philosophers understood it), and the common people were told as many bold-faced lies as was necessary to control them and render them governable. "

Hello Brad

Thank you for that post. I have come across a similar declaration that was an admition by a Jesuit of the Catholic Church as I recall. I have not kept the article that came up on a web search and I was only looking for my edification anyway so I can not point to the article . Suffice to say, I have much in my library that confirms the Jesuit hand in the affairs, economics and oppression in the world. Not something to fear as this is all in the Plan of God that the world  will be deceived by Satan.

My thought as I was reading your post is this. Some leaders perhaps all leaders in Babylon KNOW that they mislead but what is interesting for me is I believe they they loose sight of the fact that they lie as they begin to BELIEVE THE LIE! How interesting that God Himself turns them over to believe the lie.

Rom 1 : 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, GOD GAVE THEM OVER TO A REPROBATE MIND, to do those things which are not convenient.

So they  make an idol of saving the masses, controlling them as a means to an end which is what ever justification they conjure up in their imagination. They are blind not knowing God is in charge of them, responsible for them and the cause of all circumstances. Knowing that would be simply too much to bear for them. God and His Plans to make mankind know good and evil and come to repent is in God's control not mans!

The leaders who lead in blindness, lead those whose eyes are blind because they have not yet been openend. I followed in that blindness for years without open eyes. I did not know the Truth. Just looking today at some of Rays teachings only a few thousand out of how many billions of people on earth today have had the blessing to read the Truth  This thought struck me today. How many know the Truth and are progressively becoming acquainted with it? This is not an accusing question or observation it is simply one of looking at the times we are in as in the days of Noah. This is not to make others look low and the few look holier than thou but to say that it is a fact that Jesus has called many and chooses very few.

 Do the Leaders know this? No. They appoint themselves and mark themselves as THE FEW>  They have to have known what the Truth is somewhere somehow to have taken the high ground to teaching nonsense, blasphemy and heresy surely! ? I look at Ray's papers to some of these Babylonian leaders. Did they change? No. They carried on right on teaching lies.  Did they see?  Maybe but if they did they then turned away, aside and against the Truth to continue to idolise their agendas to impress their God that is Satan who has his throne in the Church's of the World. What a tragedy for them that will be corrected, straightened out and put right in the end by non other than Christ Himself when He comes to expose, refute and put straight their crooked paths.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Title: Re: Plagiarism Help?
Post by: Dennis Vogel on February 28, 2008, 10:07:30 PM
Quote from: dch1 on February 28, 2008, 06:15:51 PM
Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment.
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.

I asked Ray to write a few words about Dr Martin.


I knew Dr. Ernest Martin since 1967 (that's over 40 years). The last time we studied together was back in 1982, I believe, when he flew out from California to Mobile where I lived at the time and we spent a long weekend together.  We were both familiar with the Concordant Publishing Concern and had agreed on certain things they taught: Namely Universal Reconciliation.  And so I have been familiar with his work and research for a long time. Some things Dr. Martin did not see. He felt the "Lake of Fire" would be a literal place in the future in Palestine. He also did not comprehend the Sovereignty of God and man's lack of a free will. That is until a few months before he died. Shortly after he died a friend who knew him well up in Portland, Oregon informed me that Dr. Martin came to realize that man absolutely did not have a free will and that God is totally Sovereign. I was very glad to hear that.  I gave Dr. Martin credit for some of my outline on "The Cano nization of the Scriptures" which I taught at our last Conference, if some of you remember.  So he learned some things before I did, and I learned some things before he did.  Shortly after his death I was asked by the man left in charge of his work if I would care to help take over the work of Dr. Martin. I graciously declined. We were not agreed everything, that's for sure, but even more, we have our hands full with

God be with you,

Dear Jeff:

It helps if you have someone to steer you in the right direction in your studies.  I was friends with the late Dr. Ernest Martin (he died a few weeks ago), who was the first to begin showing me the reconciliation of all in the Scriptures. There are many writers from the past who understood this Scriptural truths. Andre Jukes has written some good works, but some of them are extremely difficult reading. My whole thing is to make it easy and simple to understand.

I spend much time meditating and running all the Scriptures by a particular truth to establish its validity in my own mind. I have, for example, meditated on the doctrine of "man's free will" or commonly called "free moral agency" for thousands and thousands of hours. Just to be sure in my own mind, that the doctrine is 100% air tight.  I believe any theologian or scientist would be hard put to find a loophole in the truth of the total sovereignty of God.

People email every single day trying to show that man MUST HAVE at least a tiny big of FREE-will. Not true. Unscriptural. And they see it when I show them in the Scriptures, but they still don't want to believe it.

Paul told Timothy to STUDY to show himself approved. I don't know of anyone to whom God has just supernaturally filled their head with spiritual truths without digging for it. Hence all the parables about the pearl of great price, hidden treasure in a field, etc. It takes work. But the spiritual part--spiritually discerning the matters of God's Word must be a gift from God.

Great men of learning such as Dr. James Kennedy who speaks both Greek and Hebrew fluently and has SIX DOCTORATES!!!! have not a clue as to what is the good news of the Gospel.

As far as church buildings go, it doesn't matter where one worships as long as it is "in SPIRIT and in TRUTH." Church buildings are fine. I don't attend any, but I am sure there are some that are just fine.



Ireland, this Thread was from January 2009, hope this helps, Samson.


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Re: Dr. Ernest Martin
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 01:13:38 PM »

The hand of the Lord is on All  He is Sovereign
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