On HELL---a few of God's random omissions!

[Duane]

Duane's random thoughts for the day are Biblical thoughts:
The book of Genesis records the creation of the heavens, earth, people, animals, plants, day/night, fishes of the sea and the creation of the land that divides the seas.
God then stepped back and looked at His creation and after every grouping He said:
"And I saw that it was good"! On the seventh day he rested.
On which day did God create Hell? (that is so important to fundamental theology) and when He added the fire and brimstone did He step back and "see that it was good"?

Later God gave specific instruction (Matthew 5:35-37) "thou shall NOT swear by heaven for it is God's throne, nor by Earth as it is His footstool, nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king, nor by your head for you cannot make one hair white or black----more than this is from the evil one." IN ALL THE DETAILS, where is: "Thou shall not swear by HELL as it is God's punishment for the unrighteous for ever and ever and ever and ever--with NO CHANCE of reconciliation for the bad choices of the short lifespan on earth"?

John 3--Nichodemus comes to Jesus by night to seek information on gaining eternal life. "Ye must be born again" is explained, the water and the spirit-explined, the wind blowing back and forth- a mystery, and no man hath assended to heaven; and lastly the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. THE CLIMAX is vs 19! "And this is the CONDEMNATION!!!!! HELL! HELL! HELL! ?? NO! MEN LOVED DARKNESS MORE THAN LIGHT BECAUSE THEIR DEEDS WERE EVIL. (Talk about a missed opportunity to spew fire and brimstone--that was just downright ANTI-CLIMACTIC!

[doug]

Duane, Hey!

Your three random thoughts on hell is way over the top! (sarcasm).  Is that how you count sheep at night... by thinking about that kind of stuff? (again, sarcasm).  I'm speaking for myself, because I certainly do!

Several years before joining this forum site I came to a belief in no everlasting punishment only because I replaced it with the doctrine of annihilation for the "wicked" which seemed much more reasonable to me at the time.

I don't believe there is one web site that even comes close to all biblical proof that supports the "no hell" doctrine better than Bible Truths.  Isn't it soooo nice to be with so many like-minded believers that have such a "civil" attitude and coherent understanding of such matters!

Here is a "hell" thought I used to wrestle/anguish with for many years.  I was visiting my brother one summer in Morganton, NC and while traversing the mountainous terrain in his truck, I vividly remember him pointing out to me a billboard near the edge of the narrow road.  The billboard depicted a man and woman's body projecting out of huge red, orange and yellow flames with the most grotesque expressions on their faces.  I don't remember the exact caption but it said something like - "Repent now or you will spend Eternity in Hell!"  At that time in my life my brother knew I was a charismatic bible thumpin' "man of God".  And, it is still imprinted on my mind and psyche to this day as he looked over at me with an unemotional face and said, "Doug, why would God do something like that?"  I kinda sank low in my seat and wanted to become invisible.  Of course I had not ONE answer to give him.  Further on down the road I felt a tear come to my eye...

[Duane]

Doug--than you for sharing that--and YES! my thoughts come at night when I "am too awake to be tired; and, too tired to be awake!"  Most of the time thy come all written in my mind and all I do is copy them off.  It is like God just lends me a copy of what he has all ready written and I type it out.  Here is another pre-packaged quote":
Duane Gevert
Now, Duane's insight on the "spiritual":

"God allows DIFFERENT trials, of DIFFERENT durations, to DIFFERENT people, for DIFFERENT purposes, producing DIFFERENT results --many times the REASONS are known ONLY to Him." --Duane Gevert

It pays to have apnea sometimes!
In Christ,
Duane

[santgem]

God creates hell when the time Adam and Eve sinned. God will abolish hell when God will be All in All.

[mharrell08]

God creates hell when the time Adam and Eve sinned. God will abolish hell when God will be All in All.

Hell is a myth, no such place exists.

FYI: http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html

[mavis92379]

"God created hell when Adam and Eve sinned."

Where in the world did you come up with that ?

Duane,

Thanks for this post. I love stuff like this. Here are 3 of the same kind of thoughts :

1) Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

How do you squeeze an eternal hell into this verse (pun) ! Wouldnt that be far greater than the great tribulation which Jesus claims will be the worst ?!?!?!

2) Mat 11:23  And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Wait a second, If Jesus performed miracles in Sodom it would have remained ? (pun) This verse destroys free will. Without Christ you can do nothing ! Salvation is entirely up to God.

3) I once asked a friend who is an eternal hell advocate :

What do you ask an unbeliever to believe in ? He said, I ask them to believe that Jesus died for their sins.

I responded by asking, So basically if Jesus didnt die for their sins than they would have nothing to believe in to be saved ?

He said that was correct ! I than asked him, If an atheist denies Gods work in creation does that work become false because they deny it ? He said no ! I asked than HOW do you condemn these to HELL for not embracing WHAT IS THE TRUTH OF GODS WORK AT CALVARY, THAT JESUS DIED FOR THEIR SINS ? ( Which you ask them all to believe ).

I did not get an answer and just closed with :

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God desires all men to come INTO THE TRUTH (that Jesus died for our sins). This truth will testify itself to ALL in due time !!!

These truths are so simple it takes a reverse miracle to hide what is so plain !

[Duane]

Santgent--I see NO BIBLE verses (remember it takes TWO witnesses (verses/referencs) to be considered  valid) that say that "hell is/was invented when Adam/Eve sinned".
Two problems:
Adam and Eve sinned way before the "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil" but it wasn't held against them because God had not yet "invented the sin concept" so there was no right/wrong standard by which to judge right and wrong or "pleasing or not pleasing" to God.
2.  Jesus will hand the "keys of the kingdom" to God when ALL men have passed thru the Lake of Fire and ALL are saved. Then "death and hell (grave) will be cast into the Lake of Fire" and God will be "ALL in ALL!

santgent--if you follow Harrells advice and read Ray's "papers" you will see that when the Bible refers to "hell" it is talking about the "unseen/buried" NOT a place of eternal burning/torture.  Also, many local references were made that "sounded hell-like" referring to the commonly known Ghenna/Valley of Himnon (garbage dump) outside the city of Jerusalem.

As long as you are NOT promoting new beliefs/ideas, we welcome your questions/thoughts--as we all started out this way--And I remember being gently guided and corrected as my head was full of "fundamentalist" thinking and it took about a year and a half of intense study before it all "fell in place"..  THEN PEACE!!!   

[Joel]

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof THOU SHALT SURELY DIE.
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:

Hell no, DEATH yes. Most Christians certainly do hear more about hell that God never mentioned, than they do of the promise of death that God warned Adam about.
Most hell fire and brimstone preachers that I have heard insinuate that when you die you either go straight to hell, or directly to heaven. So in essence you never die, and in effect they are lying on the God they are supposedly serving.
I am thankfull for Ray and the effort he has put forth to expose those that contradict. His gift of God is only evident to those God has allowed to have their eyes opened to the Truth.
If you died tonight, where would you be tomorrow? (DEAD)

Joel

[santgem]

Santgent--I see NO BIBLE verses (remember it takes TWO witnesses (verses/referencs) to be considered  valid) that say that "hell is/was invented when Adam/Eve sinned".
Two problems:
Adam and Eve sinned way before the "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil" but it wasn't held against them because God had not yet "invented the sin concept" so there was no right/wrong standard by which to judge right and wrong or "pleasing or not pleasing" to God.
2.  Jesus will hand the "keys of the kingdom" to God when ALL men have passed thru the Lake of Fire and ALL are saved. Then "death and hell (grave) will be cast into the Lake of Fire" and God will be "ALL in ALL!

santgent--if you follow Harrells advice and read Ray's "papers" you will see that when the Bible refers to "hell" it is talking about the "unseen/buried" NOT a place of eternal burning/torture.  Also, many local references were made that "sounded hell-like" referring to the commonly known Ghenna/Valley of Himnon (garbage dump) outside the city of Jerusalem.

As long as you are NOT promoting new beliefs/ideas, we welcome your questions/thoughts--as we all started out this way--And I remember being gently guided and corrected as my head was full of "fundamentalist" thinking and it took about a year and a half of intense study before it all "fell in place"..  THEN PEACE!!!

i did not read any of the references that you are talking with. It is not my intention to give new doctrine as i have no capacity to do so, it's only my idea.

Do not look of what i said literally.

Is it not when we sin the wages is death? death is end of being alive. if you are not alive then you are dead. if you are dead then you are in hell in sheol in hades in pit. Did not God also creates sin? If not so, who creates sin?

then,

Is not also God will abolished death? so that God will be all in all!

[Dave in Tenn]

Understood, Santgem.  Sheol-Hades-the Pit- are all translated "Hell" (at least in the KJV) or 'presumed to be Hell' by almost all in Christendom.  You're speaking figuratively among brothers and sisters who understand that.  Every form of ""hell"" will be done away with.  Thanks.       

[JohnMichael]

I was just discussing a topic related to this with a good friend, and brother in Christ today.

When we hear statements like these:

"God is just a kid with a magnifying glass"
"God is a vicious monster that will torture His creation for all eternity" (what they are really saying when they say Hell & Free Will are real)
"There is no God"
"God is a vindictive, petulant, worship-hungry two year old" (again, what they really mean when they preach Hell & Free Will)

etc, etc, etc.

We may get angry or sad. We may shake our heads in disappointment or grief. There are many reactions we might have.

However, how do these statements make our Holy, Loving, Heavenly Father feel?

These statements are falsehoods spit at Him. The only thing I can compare it to is how a parent feels when their child accuses them, says they hate them, says horrible and hateful things about them, etc. It really got me thinking the other night. How much pain have we inflicted on our Father with our careless statements or thoughts? (I'm speaking of humanity as a whole when I say "us" because we forums members were there once too.)

It really brings depth and meaning to His mercy, His love, His goodness, and everything that is so wonderfully and amazingly HIM. To borrow from David, "what is man that You are mindful of him..." (Psa 8:4)

In Him,
John

[Foxx]

No God did not create sin.

God made us spiritually too weak not to sin.

James 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man

We were made capable of sinning, God made us knowing we would only do that which was in our nature. Without him we cannot NOT sin.