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Is all Sin really the same?

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Kat:

Hi newgene,


--- Quote ---It seems as tho, even those who walk by the spirit of God, and love of God has to "go along with the flow" cause we don't wanna feel like we're casting stones;
--- End quote ---

We had a resent thread on 'conscience' and it seems to me that this is a similar discussion. I have come to believe certain things as a matter of my own conscience/morals/code of living and so I believe that homosexuality and gay-marriage is going against conscience/morals or principles of righteousness. Therefore I believe it is wrong to live/practice a homosexual lifestyle in or outside of marriage, I also believe that following a lifestyle/practicing of fornication, adultery or prostitution is wrong and as well as living by manmade doctrines that the church teaches (this can cover many categories) is wrong.

Now in believing these things are wrong do I approach people that are doing these things and tell them that I feel they are wrong for doing them? No. I will say that in going about my life, IF I come into a situation where I am present at a discussion about one of these subjects I will say what my feelings are on this. It really depends on the conversation how much I would comment, but I would not shirk from speaking out against something that I feel is morally wrong. But neither would I condemn an individual per se, if they are by what I believe, so be it. A lot of times to remain silent might be viewed as you are in agreement with the general consensus, so yes I would say how I feel. But of course there is not a standard way to handle this as it would always depend on the situation.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

onelovedread:
Ray:

"So what is there about man that God loves? He hates man's sin and He hates the man who commits the sin. And that IS the way all human beings are. So what is left for God to love?

If Paul wanted to tell us that God loves sinners while they are yet sinning, he would have simply said so, such as this: "God loved us while we were yet sinners." Or even more directly like this: "God LOVES SINNERS." But God only "commended" or "introduced" or "exhibited" that love ahead of time. Paul makes this simple to understand 16 verses previously where he states, "...God calls those things which be NOT as though they WERE" (Rom. 4:17). And since we are told at dozens of places in Scripture that God is the Saviour of all men, His love and sacrifice on the cross covers all sins, for all people, for all time.

"And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (I John 2:2)
and
"God our Saviour, Who will have all men [all sinners] to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4)

7.      "For God hath concluded them all [both the Jews & Gentiles -- that's all humanity] in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32)

Notice that God will need to "have mercy upon all" because "all have sinned." God made the human race, and He made them spiritually weak, and as such are not able to obey the spiritual laws of God. Eve failed her first test. God told them what they could and could not eat. Eve immediately gave in to her "lust of flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life" when Satan presented her the opportunity. This weak spiritual mind and heart of Eve did not develop over a life-time of sinning, but was with her from her beginning. It therefore, behooves God to take away man's stony heart and convert his carnal mind after they have served God's purpose in the spiritual development of man.....

God made all humans sinners. He hates man's sin and He hates the man who commits the sin (both of which He has made). Ray states that man's will is caused, and we know there is no uncaused 'free' will. So the logical conslusion is
God created all men, who are sinners.
He hates the sin and the sinner, and therefore 'commended' that love ahead of time,
since He hates sinners or sin. 

onelovedread:
"It seems the Great God doesn't agree with our 21st Century opinions about love, love, love everybody regardless of what they say or do."

JFK
I don't think I fully understand what you are stating here. Who are you referring to in the "our" (above). Are you referring to us forum members, humanity in general, christians...?
And what specific 21st century opinions?
Also, I am not sure what "the Great God doesn't agree..." means. Are you saying that the "our" referred to in your statement has disregarded what God says? Or is it that God has 'blinded their eyes' so as not to let them (us) understand?
Pardon me but I just want to fully understand your point.
Can you explain a little more about.
Thanks. I really appreciate your help.

JohnMichael:
If one really wants to get technical, judging others, having a self-righteous attitude, a hateful heart, etc, are all exceedingly worse than any physical sin one could ever do. Christ illustrated this point in the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14).

Christ commands us to love our enemies. I'd take what Christ says over the words of a man.

Mark 12:29-31

Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ “The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Luke 6:35

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

1 John 4:8

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 Cor 13:4-8

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails...

We're quick to join 1 John 4:8 and 1 Cor 13 when discussing the salvation of all, but then we do exactly what the churches do (contextualize it away) when it comes to the idol of hatred.

In Him,
John

Revilonivek:
It is also extremely easy to judge others based on our sense of morals of whats right or wrong because it is in our carnal nature to do so. That is why we need to really train ourselves to make judgement not a primary goal in our lives.

Our senses oof morals are different than others. What we feel is wrong may not seem wrong to them. We repent by things we are convicted of. Not what we feel others say it is wrong.

Also we don't know their lives, their thoughts" etc. That is where more or few stripes come in play. They do not answer to us but they answer to God. GOD knows their mind and hearts. We a re judged according to what we know is right and wrong. God has mercy on us all because we are all sinners. We are people with faults. God knows that. It is easy to try to judge or help others with our own sense of morals but really we need to focus on our own souls and try to become unconditional love itself before we can even help others. We need to first burn out thr carnal nature in ourselves before we can even help others as sons and daughters of God. We need to become unconditional love itself first before we can even see the whole picture. They will truly see God in you once u burn the carnal nature is burnt out and they will want that ttoo. Right now it is our carnal nature that wants to judge people according to our sense of morals. We need to stop that because every soul is different and unique and not everyone sees it the same way u do. When thy see the sons of God. They will defintrly ask and change because they will.  Love draws them. Not ur carnal nature. It is better not to cast the stone than to throw one ESP when ur other faults are there. It should be a goal to burn out the self righteousness.  Its going to be hard but with God's help, anything is possible.

Denise

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