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Why there is no rapture
doug:
Hello Friends,
I see elsewhere that there is discussion and interest on the "rapture". I thought it might be helpful to start a discussion on this topic and I am hoping that there will be others to build on this. I believe it will be edifying for all of us as like minded believers.
The following explanation is why I believe that there will be no "rapture" and that it is a false theory.
I Thessalonians 4:17 is the *single* scripture used to justify "the rapture" by false doctrine. Based on scripture you cannot make a doctrine on a single scripture (II Peter 1:20). The word "rapture" does not appear in the text of any translation of the bible, in any language.
"caught up" are the words used by many when referring to the rapture. King James must have missed this one because the words "caught up" and not found in the Young's Concordance for I Thess 4:17. However, "catch" is listed under that scripture. That word appears 13 times, and is translated 6 different ways: catch, catch away, catch (caught) up, pluck and take by force. In the 12 other scriptures, it has nothing to do with the physical removal of living people from the earth to heaven.
Also in the "rapture" chapter, 1 Thess 4:17, is to meet the Lord "in the air". According to the Strong's and Young's concordance, "air" is the Greek word "aer", as used in the following scriptures:
Acts 22:23, .... and threw dust into the air (aer).
I Cor 9:26, .... not as one who beateth the air (aer).
I Cor 14:9, .... for ye shall speak in the air (aer).
Another Greek word which is also translated, air, in the KJV is "ouranos". That translation is found in Matt 6:26, 8:20, 13:32; Mark 4:4 & 32; Luke 8:5, 9:58, 13:19 and Acts 10:12, 11:6. Each one of these scriptures refer to "birds/fowls of the air (ouranos).
Example: Grab a handful of dirt and throw it into the air. That's about where you would be hanging if there were to be a "rapture", based on the recorded meaning of the word "air".
Next we have the phrase, "with them in the clouds". If you look outside, you can see the clouds "up there". But, is that what the scripture means? No!
In the following scriptures, the cloud came down to earth:
Matt 17:5; Mark 9:7; Luke 9:34.
In I Cor 10:1,2 they were under the cloud, and were baptized in the cloud.
Hebrews 1:36 - 12:2 talks about "so great a cloud of witnesses.
With all of the above, let us read I Thess 4, beginning at verse 13, with a much more accurate and clearer understanding of the words and terms used therein. For clarity, I will put the scripture quotes from I Thess in capital letters.
"BUT I WOULD NOT HAVE YOU IGNORANT, BRETHEREN, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP (this scripture is primarily about the departed/dead saints in Christ) THAT YE SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS WHICH HAVE NO HOPE (the Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection). FOR IF WE BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN (we all believe that), EVEN SO (in like manner) THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP (are dead) IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM (Jesus). FOR THIS WE SAY UNTO YOU BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, THAT WE (true believers) WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN (on earth) UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD SHALL NOT PREVENT (precede, have no advantage over) THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP. FOR THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN (Acts 1:11, Jesus went directly from earth to heaven and shall return "in like manner" directly from heaven to earth) WITH A SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, AND THE TRUMP OF GOD: AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE (Greek word anistemi - to set up or be resurrected) FIRST: THEN WE WHO ARE ALIVE ("we shall not all die, but shall be changed/transfigured" - I Cor 15:51) AND REMAIN (on the earth in the "aer" SHALL BE CAUGHT UP (made one - harpazo) TOGETHER (at the same time) WITH THEM (the dead in Christ) IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR (the great cloud of witnesses that will be made perfect with us on earth when Jesus brings their spirits with Him to be united with their bodies resurrected out of the ground first into the air (aer) with us in the air, on the surface of the earth): AND SO SHALL WE (for) EVER BE WITH THE LORD (in the air (aer) here on earth for the Kingdom Age). WHEREFORE, COMFORT (reassure) ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS."
Notice, the Lord "descended from heaven" before we are "caught up" to Him; just as the " New Jerusalem" came down to dwell with us - Revelation 21:2.
Okay... what say you?
newgene87:
I will continue to pray over this. But even though the rapture has holes in it: that verse still smells "rapture". I mean "harpazo" (seized away, carried off, catches away) TOGETHER with them in the clouds (even though not the clouds in the heavens); it still smells rapture. The question is: WHEN will this event in 1 Thess 4:16-17); happen? And what of those are work inqiuity and don't believe? And to be honest; Ive never been to a church that preached on this I've only seen the left behind movies: and it seems bogus to me anyway. But this still smells like rapture...or maybe I'm getting the meaning rapture wrong. Cause whether "air" or "cloud" whats the big difference? Regardless we shall be carried off together with them (the dead right?) to be with the lord. Thanks :) :) :)
John from Kentucky:
One aspect of the false rapture teaching is easy to disprove. That part that says the saved will be caught up with Jesus in the clouds and go with Him to heaven.
That is false because Jesus is returning to the earth to reign for the ages---on the earth. Specifically, the scriptures teach that Jesus will first set His feet down on the mount of Olives, in Jerusalem.
First scripture is Acts 1:1-12. Forty days after His resurrection, Jesus was with His apostles on the mount of Olives when He ascended into heaven and went into the clouds, never to be seen by them in a physical body again. The angels told the apostles that He would return in the same manner as they saw Him go---that is, His feet was on the mount of Olives and He went into the clouds---He would return from the clouds and stand on the mount of Olives.
Second scripture is Zechariah 14:4. "And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east..." These scriptures in Zechariah speak of the time when the LORD comes to rule.
Kat:
Hi Gene,
--- Quote ---But this still smells like rapture...or maybe I'm getting the meaning rapture wrong. Cause whether "air" or "cloud" whats the big difference? Regardless we shall be carried off together with them (the dead right?) to be with the lord.
--- End quote ---
1Th 4:17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;
Mar 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
v. 27 And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.
This is the first resurrection, this is where the Elect have raised up and gather to "meet" Jesus Christ. Those in the first resurrection will no longer be earth bound, they have been perfected and are born into the heavenly kingdom as the bride of Christ, New Jerusalem.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is.
v. 2 And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband.
The second resurrection of the rest of the dead will be back to physical life and they of course will live on the earth and so the chosen elect will be reigning with Christ on this earth.
Rev 5:10 And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.
Mat 6:10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.
So the Elect will rise up to meet Jesus Christ, but their mission is to reign with Christ over the nations on the earth, who must be purged and cleansed of all their wood, hay and stubble. The elect are the lake of fire.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:10-11 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God, having the glory of God...
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty is its temple, even the Lamb.
v. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
v. 24 And the nations of those who are saved will walk in the light of it; and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.
v. 25 And its gates may not be shut at all by day, for there shall be no night there.
v. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it.
v. 27 And there shall in no way enter into it anything that defiles, or any making an abomination or a lie; but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
--- Quote --- The question is: WHEN will this event in 1 Thess 4:16-17); happen?
--- End quote ---
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
newgene87:
Thanks kat! ;D ;D. Makes alot of sense now; by faith that is. MY thing is now, and it is a little humor; but there have been billions and billions and billions of people that have lived on earth....will they all fit?? :P :o :o. I'll take rays advice and don't over think it i guess 8) 8). Thanks again ;D
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