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[lauriellen]

I know it is just a movie loosely based on a true story, but i was awake most of the night thinking about how the writers 'hit the nail on the head' so-to-speak concerning some of the BIG issues of life that i and many struggle with. The movie was 'Hatfields & McCoys' on the history channel,and was a true story of a fued that ripped two families and their communities apart. The 'head' of the McCoy family seemed so 'religious', always so sure God was on his families side and would protect them and bring the Hatfield family to justice. The head of the Hatfield family didn't seem to put much faith on God, and seemed to rely on his family & guns to get his own form of justice. After many of the family members on both sides had been killed, the McCoys were sitting on the front porch and Mr. McCoy was commenting on how he had prayed about the outcome when his wife made a very interesting comment....she said "Don't you ever get tired of praying? I can't see that it's done you much good.".....that just really struck me that the writers captured a question we all must have asked ourselves at some time or another?...when we/i have felt like i have done everything i could do to obey and please God, and still everything seems to work against us/me?
Later after another terrible battle in which 2 more of the McCoy children were killed, their house and belongings burned and his wife terribly injured, Mr. McCoy lost his faith and cursed God.....he said "no just God would allow that to happen." (isn't that THE question on most people's mind after some terrible disaster or tragedy or untimely death occurs?) In the movie, he became a drunkard who eventually accidentally burned himself up in  his cabin......i couldn't help but symphathize with Mr. McCoy, because i too struggle with this issue of good verses evil and have spent many hours wrestling with the same tormenting thoughts.....it is just SO hard to understand how some things can happen, such evil, horrible unthinkable things, yet we are to recieve them as from the hand of God, still trusting, faithful and even to rejoice in the suffering?...Some days i do have a peace about it, some days not-so-much. I just thought it was interesting that "hollywood" at times can produce some thought provoking films.
Ironically, the film ended with Mr. Hatfield (who seemingly had no faith) being baptised....lol. Go figure.

[Samson]

Hey Laurie,

Pam and I watched the Hatfields & the Mc'Coys, it was pretty good, except having Feuds between different Families or Clans, We have feuds inside Families. Man dominates Man to His own injury.

We enjoyed it ! Samson.

[Kat]

Hi Laurie,

Well it's interesting what can be learned about human nature from watching a movie. But this world does not understand is what God is doing here in this age. People tend to look at evil as a purely bad thing with absolutely nothing to gain from it whatsoever. Well why is there so much evil in this world and we know that God is the ultimate cause of it? Did the Hatfields and Mc'Coys learn anything from there feud? I think they did or at least could be taught that all the hate/evil and revenge/evil that they held against one another was wrong and in the end only brought misery to them all.

In this world all people will get their share of an "evil experience," so they will clearly know what it is and in the next age they will be able to learn from their own experiences the difference from evil and good.

If I want to teach my little (1 1/2 yr old) granddaughter not to touch a hot oven, I have to give her the idea of what hot is. So I put her hand to a pretty warm oven and say hot and as she continues to experience hot things, like hot water, she learns what it is to be hot. I don't think you could ever fully explain something like that without shows someone what it is.

That is the same thing with evil, we all know what it is from experiencing it. I will grant you that anybody that has experienced something evil is not likely to forget about it. So that is what I think all this evil is about. You might think well God is getting carried away, because there is so much evil... no, He knows exactly how much there needs to be.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Cypress]

I saw the commercials for it, but missed it. Hope you are well!

[GaryK]

I watched the 3 episodes.   I don’t watch ‘reality’ shows, well, I don’t watch much TV at all, so it was indeed refreshing to see something of interest.    Interestingly enough of all the things that caught my attention, and there were many as to how the film related to the original/actual issues of the feud (the pig court case being one), the loss of McCoy’s faith was a heart-breaking scene.

”a question we all must have asked ourselves at some time or another?...when we/i have felt like i have done everything i could do to obey and please God, and still everything seems to work against us/me?”

“ because i too struggle with this issue of good verses evil and have spent many hours wrestling with the same tormenting thoughts.....it is just SO hard to understand how some things can happen, such evil, horrible unthinkable things, yet we are to recieve them as from the hand of God, still trusting, faithful and even to rejoice in the suffering?...Some days i do have a peace about it, some days not-so-much.”

You’re not asking for advice and that’s a good thing because I don’t have any to give.    I struggle with this as well Lauriellen so don’t you feel the least bit alone.     I’ve struggled with it for about 5 years now and the posts I’ve stupidly enough made here at BT over the last 5 years prove it.  I’m not really sure anymore why I still hang around BT and the like-minders for having pretty much given up on the hope of understanding exactly where and when this hand of ‘mercy’ and ‘faith’ is supposed to show.   In true fact, desperate thoughts on that very matter early this morning most probably long prior to anyone else wiping the sleep out of their eyes.   There was a time, prior to BT, when I thought I pretty much had God nailed and thought we had a pretty good working relationship the two of us.  And then events began where things treasured were lost, one after another.   It appears when he walks away and shakes the dust, he doesn’t kid around.   Course, I’m no saint in my own right over the whole matter so I can’t say as I blame him.  But whatever I did I must have been real good at it to cause some kind of lasting anger.   I guess, hell, I don’t know.   

Regardless, I’ve read Ray.  I’ve read them times over and for a long time now.    And the man makes sense.  More sense than any other words I've read anywhere.   It’s a good thing to get the mechanics (knowledge of the word) tweaked to the right torque, no doubt.   But, it’s an entire different matter to sync the gears of the mechanics with our emotional infrastructure  and know when, and how,  to shake loose of the fragile parts of that infrastructure that should no longer be a part of the gift ‘faith’ should be, or hopefully, become, if there's supposed to be any emotional base at all.   It’s hard.  At least for me it is.   But still, deep inside I believe if it happens it won’t be anything we’ll being causing to occur on our own, other than just standing in the right spot at the right time.   

That’s not advice, that’ just me agreeing with your train of thought.

But here I am stupidly rattling on again.   

gk

[lauriellen]

thanks all for your comments. I do think it was easier to think that the devil was responsible for all the evil in the world...lol. I do get, with my head, that God is working out a purpose with all this evil, but with my heart, a mothers' heart, i would give my life to spare my children pain & suffering, .... i do get that sometimes children do need to learn the hard way, but i have never been good at tuff love...lol.
Yes, such a hearbreaking scene to see the man loose his faith in God, because i do know what that hurt feels like.
i do believe that it will work to the good, and someday we will think what we suffered in this life isn't even comparable to the goodness God will give us, but i don't think i will ever feel that way in this life....my heart is too hurt........but then again, God is in control and does what He wants to amoung all men. =)
have a great weekend everyone.
lauri

[Dave in Tenn]

Having been faithless, all I can say it that it sucks.  If a little is all I ever get, I'm thankful for that much.  We're not called to enjoy but to rejoice, and that takes faith.  I never want to 'fake-it' for public consumption, but privately sometimes I just have to 'reckon it so'.  I'm guessing the Hatfields AND the McCoys said 'reckon' every once in a while.   

Didn't see the movie.  I probably would have concentrated on a different aspect--not to say it's more valuabe, it's just where I am. 

Isn't it at least a bit encouraging that 'we' can see a 'movie' and think Spiritual and true thoughts?  I think so.  Just need to make sure they are 'true'.

Oh well, if GK can ramble, so can Dave. 

 

[Stacey]

Hi lauriellen, I didn't get to see the whole movie but what I saw was interesting. I reckon  if McCoy lost his faith what he really was losing was all his churchin? I suppose he came to a place in his mind that we all have to get to at some point and that is to be broken down and crushed in all our understanding and reasoning so the new and true foundation can be laid and built on. Even if that faith losing experience is also a life ending one there is still hope for us in the resurrection.

"no just God would allow that to happen."

I wonder how many times that line has been used. How many have lost their faith or given credit to the devil for what seems impossible that God would cause to happen to us. We are all putty in the hand of God and He smashes, squeezes, molds, builds, destroys and kills us as He pleases. That I know without a doubt. If that sounds a little bitter well, I am. 

GK, I don't find any of your posts "stupid" if you do, hope you get over it and keep on posting cause I like to read what you have to say and enjoy your rants and ramblings cause I can relate to your anger and disagreements with God. 

[olasupo jacobs]

1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 
we should take solace in the comfort of the scriptures...really there are so many things we wont know NOW except for the few that's revealed through God's spirit working in his true servants. how be it in the coming age the earth will be filled with the Knowledge of G[size=78%]od[/size] just as waters covering the sea...i know He will accomplish it- best regards to all BT members Olasupo jacobs 

Ps: Movies are good sources of getting other peoples opinions and belief...never the less they can only convey half-truths as most other media outlets are, they keep re=echoing their sponsorer's belief or opinion

[cjwood]

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html

i hope i copy and pasted this study of ray's correctly.  if not, it is listed in his audio recordings.

i wanted to include it in this thread because it is all in there.  really.  i listened to this audio of ray's again last night and was amazed at how many, many truths are contained in it.

lauriellen, gk, dave, et al; i encourage a re-listen or a first time listen to this audio teaching.  i pray it will be a comfort to each of you and to all who read it.  it sure was for me.

claudia

p.s.  when i started listening again to this audio, i must admit, my heart sunk and then bounced like on a tramboline, when i heard ray's voice again.  what a dear brother.   

[Gina]

Hey Claudia,

Is that the "Different Loves" audio?  That was very good.  It was such an eye opener for me (as with everything else). 

gk, I'm glad you're still here:  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14197.0.html   

[ez2u]

the MC Coy's was my grand mothers mothers' side of the family  Harriet Allen Chapman  the Allen's and MCCoys married  the stories that my grandmother told me was nothing like this movie  drama

[onelovedread]

Just finished watching the movie, which I found absorbing.
Totally blown away by the way "christianity" was used as the reason to perpetrate hateful actions on one's foes. I can not understand how Randall McCoy could 'lose his faith' when most of his actions were faithless from the beginning. There was a decided lack of love throughout with families disowning members, and in one case the suggestion that a father would think about murdering his own son. I am not judging since there are still instances of hypocrisy in our personal lives (at least in mine), but I was blown away by the temerity of some of the characters (like Phillips) describing themselves as christians.

[Gina]

I never saw the movie, but what OneLove (John) said is what went through my mind, too.  I come from Maryland and I knew all about the story of the Hatfields and the McCoys. 

I was taught to believe that the Hatfields interbred with their kin, likewise the McCoys interbred with their kin, because they wanted to keep their money in their families.  But I'm not sure how true that is or if it was mentioned in the movie you all saw. 

Interbreeding is a major cause of mental (and emotional and I would imagine physical) illness.  So much so that the Italian government is one country in Europe that forbids interbreeding because of it.  People in Italy (like the Hs & Ms) stay in their little towns and villages and never leave and consequently they've interbred to the point that they're more than a little nutso.  And now, Italians who want to marry must go through extensive blood testing to be sure they aren't "kissin cousins."

But those things can apparently be outbred.  I was friends with a descendent of the Hatfields in Maryland when I was a teenager; we went to junior high and high school together.  She was smart, and the sweetest, prettiest, quietest, lady-likest thing you evuh done saw --  really.  She was about 5 feet tall with dark brown hair, BIG blue eyes, and milk ivory skin.  I'll never forget her.

[Joel]

I saw the series and thought it made interesting entertainment.
Historically it seemed to be biased, seeing as to how Kevin Costner played Anse Hatfield, and the movie was seen more from that perspective.
That time during and after the civil war brought a lot of lively characters to the public forefront, and it is very evident that loving your neighbor as yourself was not one of their best virtues.

Joel

[ez2u]

this Movie   WAS NOT the Truth  believe me  it was set up to make you think a certain way  just like a lot of programing going on today  don't believe it

[Dave in Tenn]

thanks all for your comments. I do think it was easier to think that the devil was responsible for all the evil in the world...lol. I do get, with my head, that God is working out a purpose with all this evil, but with my heart, a mothers' heart, i would give my life to spare my children pain & suffering, .... i do get that sometimes children do need to learn the hard way, but i have never been good at tuff love...lol.
Yes, such a hearbreaking scene to see the man loose his faith in God, because i do know what that hurt feels like.
i do believe that it will work to the good, and someday we will think what we suffered in this life isn't even comparable to the goodness God will give us, but i don't think i will ever feel that way in this life....my heart is too hurt........but then again, God is in control and does what He wants to amoung all men. =)
have a great weekend everyone.
lauri

Lauri, been thinking about this and, whether this adresses your thinking directly or not, felt compelled to answer.

You said earlier that it was easier to believe that Satan was responsible for all the evil of the world.  I think I understand you, but I don't believe that we should think that he is not accountable for any evil at all.  He is a liar and sinner from the beginning and is the greatest of the evils that God produced to fulfill His will.  That cannot mean we have to always wallow in or be 'patient' with the lies and destruction that he subjects us to, even though they are, for a season, the will of God.  Each of us have already (to one degree or another) been delivered from satan's grasp.  We wouldn't know or believe any Truth if we had not been.  That's what a Savior does.  I should hope we keep on being saved!  That has to be my faith, or else Jesus really ISN'T the savior of the world.

I can't supply you with a 'formula', but our 'former state' as children of the devil is not the state we find ourselves (to one degree or another depending on how God has already worked in us) in now.  There are (and have been) things to overcome, flee from, not become entangled in, be delivered from etc.  The power of Satan and his lies are certainly a major part of that, and we've already experienced some of that by the grace of God and His faith which he's given us.  The Savior is not done with us yet.

End of sermon, welcome or not.  As I said, if it doesn't have anything to do with your thinking, never mind.  Still worth saying, I hope.  Back to my cave for bit.