questions about bill wiese

[wigglytug]

 from what ive seen of rays work about bill wiese bill wiese its clear that his probably a liar, but however i heard that he doesnt accept donations or large speaking fees.. i am a bit confused.. so what is really up witht his guy   what do u guys think he is really up to

anyways i really enjoed reading rays 50 contradicions but there something about number 13 that i have a few questions about, wiese said that there were both indiudual pits of fire were people burn AND one giant pit were people burned i dont get it why are there both indudual pits AND a giant pit were everyone ws buring

[servias]

Welcome 1st poster Wigglytug.

He may not accept donations but I'm sure his books are for sale at the door.  I've seen 23 minutes in hell at walmart too.  So its very mainstream. 

So do you believe people are or will be burning in pits??  Forget what weise said what do you believe?

EDIT:  SORRY I misread, when you mentioned the number 13 I thought you were referring to something you learned from Weise not what you read from Rays contradictions...

Dan

[Dave in Tenn]

Don't know Mr. Weise, but I see he has a new book.

I looked at his speaking 'itenerary' on his offcial site.  It looks kinda thin, but I don't know how often it's updated.

The 'contradiction' in #13 is that in one part of his book he claims that individual pits hold one "lost soul", and in other places he claims that several or many people are in one pit.  He says that there is no communication or interaction in one place in his book, then describes communication and interaction on other pages.

Is that any help?

Nice to meet you.

   

[wigglytug]

yeah it does,  it turns out he wrote another book were he answers questions about hell did anyone see it or read about it http://www.soulchoiceministries.com/shop/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SCM&Product_Code=B002&Category_Code=

[Dave in Tenn]

I just read a few pages of the sample.  Same old same old...justifying a place that doesn't exist with a belief in free-will that doesn't exist.  One thing stood out to me:  He quotes Proverbs 8:13 He who answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame to him.  I wonder if he would be willing to apply that verse to himself instead of his readers?

[wigglytug]

but still some people say that he dosent keep the proceeds for his book and gives it away i am just confused about WHAT is going on

[Dave in Tenn]

Write him and ask him, if you'd like.     A lot of preachers of eternal torment are not rich and have no overarching desire to be rich.  Many are like Paul who did what he did in ignorance and unbelief.  Some know the truth, but withold it.  We're not accountable for the sins we don't commit, are we?  I have no information on Mr. Weise's personal finances, but maybe somebody else does.       

[patmokgoko]

I think I will write a rebuttal of Bill's new book, he has a lot of problems trying to justify his imaginations, he says God is not the father of all but He is the creator of all.Is his second book about things he forgot to mention in the first book or is he doing damage control.As for the issue of him collecting money, it depends what his motive was from the beginning,what  if his motive was fame.As for the selling of his books why doesn't he distribute them freely to  the poor, surely such a warning is not only meant for those who can afford to buy the book(s).Wigglytug, do you really believe that he gives away all the money he makes from his books, like I said, rather have many copies printed and send to the poor than ...You ask "what is he up to?" I answer "fame and money".If his warnings are from God then his book(s) should be attached to the Bible or what do you think, oops, we have a problem, we are not supposed to add to the Word of God {Rev 22:18}.Galatians 1:6, stay firm, if you have questions regarding Bill don't ask his followers, to them he is a hero/role model.Stand firm my brethren because there is no fear in love,I love you.

[Gina]

23 Minutes in Hell

Why should you believe me?

"I can appreciate and understand why you might be skeptical in regard to my experience. I KNOW I WOULD BE" (23 Minutes in Hell, p. 87).

What? Bill says he "gets irritated" with those who do not believe in his hell, and then turns around and tells us that he would be "skeptical" himself of his own story. Is Bill seriously trying to tell us that Jesus expects people to believe Bill's fabled, unscriptural rendition of a pagan hell perpetrated by the Christian Church, Muslims, and others, when Bill himself has a problem believing it and it is he himself that supposedly experienced this awful place so that he could convince skeptics of its reality? Can you not see the total contradictory nonsense of his story? There is nothing consistent in his story, and all of his stories and supposed experiences contradict all of the Scriptures, besides contradicting all the major laws of science and physics.

Bill concedes that not even "conservative Bible teachers" would believe his story: "I came from a conservative background where I received sound biblical teaching from conservative Bible teachers who would probably shun my experience ... many of them would have an incredulous opinion about God taking someone there for an experience such as the one I had. AND I WOULD AGREE, for I too have been skeptical of such 'experiences' in the past" (p. 87). Yet, Bill expects people to believe what even he finds (to use his own word) "incredulous!"


http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html

[arion]

You may want to listen to the audio teaching that Ray did on '23 minutes in hell' long before he did his paper.  When Ray goes through the contradictions there is no way an objective person can pay any attention to what Wiese has to say.  It will just engender more confusion.

http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible%20Study%2007-06-08%20Pt_1.mp3

http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible%20Study%2007-06-08%20Pt_2.mp3

[Foxx]

Mr. Wiese's most recent book is called Recession Proof Living...oh boy... Here is the synopsis:

"Wiese had a successful real estate career spanning over thirty-five years—through both good and tough economic times. Early in his career, he made the decision to carefully study the Bible and apply God's methods to every move that he made. As a result, he attained success that was unheard of for many other agents, simply because he adhered to God's plan.

In Recession-Proof Living, he shares these biblical principles along with true stories of his experiences to demonstrate how anyone can achieve success—spiritually, financially, physically, and corporately—by living according to God's economic system.

Not simply a book about how to make money, Recession-Proof Living shows you how to live a life that guarantees success—God's way. Even if every effort and method you've tried has failed, living by God's standard won't."

Wow so God talks about things that will help me to attain financial success as long as I obey him? And this is promised? I don't know about you but I already found 3 scriptural errors in just this little bit of text about the book.According to him anyone can achieve these things! Well, we need to get this book to poor people in third world countries who believe in Jesus so they can have financial and physical and corporate success!

You know, if people saved their money instead of spending on this snake oil salesman's books, then they would be better off...

[Marky Mark]

so what is really up witht his guy  what do u guys think he is really up to

This guy is up to exactly what God has him to be up to,that is,doing the lusts of his father, the devil...

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

Bill is reaping what he sows in his 23 minutes of distortion.

Mat 25:26 Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Psa 18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
Psa 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.

Bill has received his answer according to his idols.

Eze 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;

The Lords treasures will not be taken lightly.

Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Evil will not prevail,Bill will go to the lake of fire...

Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Mat 18:34  And his lord was very angry, and put him in the hands of those who would give him punishment till he made payment of all the debt.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Peace...Mark

[longhorn]

The amount of time you spent reading or watching anything BW say's are minutes of your life you wasted and simply cannot get back, it's gone. Your time would have been better spent doing anything else.  I wasted 30 minutes of my precious time reading 30 minutes in hell, and I could have been more productive pulling ticks off my dogs butt.

Longhorn

[wigglytug]

yeah i know it just boggles me just what is up with this guy

[Gina]

That's not for us to say, Wigglytug. 

(Longhorn?!! But you know what?  You're schmabsolutely, positively correct.)

Besides, Wiggly, we're so busy reading all of Ray's articles and studying, we don't have the time or the desire to read that junk, which amounts to nothing more than adulterated infant formula. 

Blechhh.  Silliest thing I ever saw.  But I did enjoy Ray's refute to 23 Minutes in Hell http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html.  Have you read it yet?  Or are you just tugging our chain? ;-)

[wigglytug]

yeah i realyl liked that stuff, but was that link to the post to the email between ray and his hater deleted at anyrate it wasnt really worth reading

[Gina]

You'll like this, I bet:  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14197.0.html

[Samson]

  What I find ironic and funny is it was Ray who introduced me to Bill Wiese and his teachings.

I religiously avoid all churches and screwball writers like Bill Wiese and his ilk.  For me to read a book by Wiese is as likely as me reading a book about gardening or vegetarians.

Also what I find funny, and one proof that there is no free will, is that I ever would click on a website called Bible-Truths.com.  Totally out of character for someone like me.   

John's above comment pretty much sums it up for Me, but for most of my life I rarely agreed with the Status Quo type beliefs found in most Categories of learning. Finding Bible-Truths for Me doesn't seem surprising at this time, but when it happened, I wasn't specifically looking for it, it seemed like an "accident " at the time, was looking for something else, but in the beginning, I just couldn't stop reading Ray's Emails and responses, it was contagious with such logical answers, Well, at least logical to Me.

However, when it comes to Orthodox Christianity Type explanations of the Scriptures, I rarely if ever bothered or bother to read their redundant explanations, had heard those explanations in the past and was never satisfied, too many holes and inconsistencies in their arguments. God's 100% total Sovereignty and no Free Will pretty much destroys all the other Babylonian Doctrines for Me.

Thanks, Samson.

[wigglytug]

yeah i know how can there be free will if God knows everything and is the creator and sovereign of the universe, to say that there is actually free will (no matter what i or anyone likes to think) would be a direct challenge to that sovereignty

[musicman]

Here are explanations to several of the book's contradictions.  And they come from a prime source.

http://churchgod.hubpages.com/hub/Bill-Wiese-is-a-Profit-of-Righteousness-and-Honesty