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Paths to the truth.

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mickiel:


I understand the urge to brand things heresy and stupid, I have done my share of that in the past; until I understood better that we can only be conscious of those things the Spirit opens to us; and I no longer feel the need to harp on others for what they do not comprehend. I can harp on myself for those things I simply do not yet understand. It is God who works all things in all people, 1Corinth. 12:6, and it states " There are varieties of Effects." The real truth willnot always effect the consciousness of different peoples God is dealing with in the same manner. Oh it will in many areas and subjects, but not all of them.

It is then unfortunate when this occurs; but it occurs and its right here in scripture. One maynot always see things like the others do. So I give a guarded testimony with respects to that, with absolutely no intention of starting a false fire or changing anothers view. We simply only can try the Spirit by the Spirit, or only be conscious of what the Spirit gives you. And it will continue to give more according to Gods will in that for the individual.

What do you do when God shows you something different? You look at his word and ask for understanding of it; that's about it in a nutshell. If he wants it in your consciousness, it willnot be removed, only continually confirmed, until you catch up to it. And begin to believe it. There will be no need to bang it on the head of others, or to belittle others for not seeing it; only to be thankful that he revealed it to you.

doug:
Mickiel,

I believe I know what you are trying to communicate, but I also have something for you to consider.  Here is my perspective on your reasoning "Paths to the truth." 

"As long as you believe in God and try to be a good person, your religion doesn't matter."  "There are many paths up the same mountain, but they all lead to the peak."

How many times have you heard people speak this way?  This is the prevailing wisdom - It's politically correct.  It's tolerant.  It's reasonable.   But.... it's wrong!  Jesus had the nerve to say, "I am the way, the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father but by me."  Jesus is the path... the only path.... to truth.  Jesus is Truth.  Not just some truth but the entire truth.  He is God's definitive and perfect Word expressing who God is, what He is like, who we are, and what we need to do to be saved from our misery and futility.

Jesus is also the Word of God.  We can't go outside of the bible (the original manuscripts) to find truth.  We communicate to God through prayer and He reciprocates by communicating with us through His Word... only through His Word... and it has been that way ever since the bible has been completed.  There are no physical manifestations or audible communication to any human in this dispensation... period!  Truth is revealed to us through His Word and by the Spirit of God.

If God only communicates with us through His Word, then where do we get the understanding of consciousness?  As far as I can tell, that word in not in the bible.  If I am wrong, I stand corrected.  At birth, humans are given a "conscience", but that is a different word and it is to infer we know right from wrong - good and evil.  God has given us many examples in scripture to tell us who and what we are, how our minds work, and how our knowledge and wisdom "evolve".  So why then digress and use words that He doesn't use?  It can only lead us to confusion!

For example:  When you first used the word consciousness in another thread, here is how it affected me and how that word's connotation influenced my thinking....

My first thought was of the singing group "The Beatles" when I was hopping around to their music in the 60's & 70's.  They went through a period of "seeking consciousness" by way of their guru (and many, many others during that time) the great Maharishi.  Along with drugs they wanted to expand their consciousness or cosmic conscience through TM (transcendental meditation) and changing their attitudes of spirituality.  They were seeking truth and wisdom from a different source other than the true Source... Jesus Christ!

To this day that is how that word consciousness has been ingrained in my mind.  The more modern version is that of the New Agers seeking wisdom and truth.  I am not saying, Mickiel, that what I have just described is how you perceive the word, but as to how I perceive the word and I can imagine many others also.

doug

mickiel:

--- Quote from: doug on June 10, 2012, 02:38:58 AM ---Mickiel,

I believe I know what you are trying to communicate, but I also have something for you to consider.  Here is my perspective on your reasoning "Paths to the truth." 

"As long as you believe in God and try to be a good person, your religion doesn't matter."  "There are many paths up the same mountain, but they all lead to the peak."

How many times have you heard people speak this way?  This is the prevailing wisdom - It's politically correct.  It's tolerant.  It's reasonable.   But.... it's wrong!  Jesus had the nerve to say, "I am the way, the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father but by me."  Jesus is the path... the only path.... to truth.  Jesus is Truth.  Not just some truth but the entire truth.  He is God's definitive and perfect Word expressing who God is, what He is like, who we are, and what we need to do to be saved from our misery and futility.

Jesus is also the Word of God.  We can't go outside of the bible (the original manuscripts) to find truth.  We communicate to God through prayer and He reciprocates by communicating with us through His Word... only through His Word... and it has been that way ever since the bible has been completed.  There are no physical manifestations or audible communication to any human in this dispensation... period!  Truth is revealed to us through His Word and by the Spirit of God.

If God only communicates with us through His Word, then where do we get the understanding of consciousness?  As far as I can tell, that word in not in the bible.  If I am wrong, I stand corrected.  At birth, humans are given a "conscience", but that is a different word and it is to infer we know right from wrong - good and evil.  God has given us many examples in scripture to tell us who and what we are, how our minds work, and how our knowledge and wisdom "evolve".  So why then digress and use words that He doesn't use?  It can only lead us to confusion!

For example:  When you first used the word consciousness in another thread, here is how it affected me and how that word's connotation influenced my thinking....

My first thought was of the singing group "The Beatles" when I was hopping around to their music in the 60's & 70's.  They went through a period of "seeking consciousness" by way of their guru (and many, many others during that time) the great Maharishi.  Along with drugs they wanted to expand their consciousness or cosmic conscience through TM (transcendental meditation) and changing their attitudes of spirituality.  They were seeking truth and wisdom from a different source other than the true Source... Jesus Christ!

To this day that is how that word consciousness has been ingrained in my mind.  The more modern version is that of the New Agers seeking wisdom and truth.  I am not saying, Mickiel, that what I have just described is how you perceive the word, but as to how I perceive the word and I can imagine many others also.

doug

--- End quote ---

Greetings  Doug,

I certainly understand you. In fact, there are no words of ancient  greek that even corresponds to consciousness ;   this is really a subject that needs to be spiritually discerned. And those are the most difficult to "begin" to understand. In John 10:16 Jesus said that he has " Other sheep which are not of " this fold", and he has to "Bring them (in) also." And then there shall be  one flock, because  there exist more than just one group. Oh yes, Jesus is the only way, but there are more than just one path to  this truth. Much  more  than just the same experiences, or all of  our experiences in this drawing would be exactly alike; and I don't think thats true.  Pauls path  was different, way differing than other apostles, and Johns path was different, ( John the Baptist). Judas  had a different path, a way differing experience in his dealings with Jesus, a path I do not believe he could have changed if he wanted to.

Consciousness being the image of God has to be spiritually discerned, because scripture just does not come right out and state it. In Rev. 12:9 it mentions that anyone who worships the beast and his " Image", receives a mark on their " Forehead", in my view, this means consciousness; their consciousness is marked or seared. The demons have taken residence in their consciousness. This is exactly how people are deceived, it happens always in their consciousness. In Rev. 19:20 people are again deceived, the false prophet performs signs that " caused" the worship of his " Image"- again this means consciousness , even the beasts image is consciousness.

In 2Corinth. 4:4 " In whose case the god of this world has blinded " The mind" ( consciousness) of the unbelieving that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God,( or the consciousness of God). I believe that Christ is the mind of God as it is being expressed to humans. Jesus is the verbal consciousness of God, he speaks for him. Explains him.

Gina:

--- Quote from: mickiel on June 09, 2012, 02:00:00 PM ---

I was watching another Ray vedio and was surprised to hear him say some here came from Worldwide, I was in there myself for 10 years. After I left I knew I probally would never try another church again. I was thinking about the thread I asked to be closed here and I never really got into explaining the path that led me to thinking about Gods Image being consciousness, and the scriptures involved in that path of thinking. I think I owe at least that explination. Again, not to convince, or beat a dead horse here, but to explain my path of thinking; I would never believe something that is not in scripture.

In Gen. 1:26-27 what distingushes us from all other things? I think consciousness is the answer. Consciousness is the governor of human behavior, and if you read  Col. 3:11 where it states that Christ is " All and in All", that verse was one of the paths to my thinking on this. How can Christ be All and " In" all? Does that mean everyone has the Holy Spirit of God? Well no, can't mean that. But, everyone has a consciousness, and it is there that Christ is all and " In All." We all have a consciousness.

In 1Corinth. 15:49 I believe the " Image of the earthy" is consciousness. In Gen. 5:3 Adams son was in his " Image and Likeness", which I view as him being conscious as Adam was.

Consciousness is awareness, thoughts and feelings; degree of reflection,activity; internal knowledge; " Waking Life." One can say all of these things actually describe Jesus relation to the Father, since Jesus is the Image of God. I think we can rightly say he is the exact representation of God, or he is the collective thought of God; he is the awareness of God, the knowledge of God , the intrests of God, the concerns of God are expressed in him; I think we can then surely say that Jesus is the consciousness of God.

Consciousness is " Waking awareness", in John 11:25 Jesus said " I am the ressurection", or he is the waking awareness! When a human mind is taken from the path of deception and placed on the path of the truth, that " New Consciousness" is a ressurection of sorts, or waking awareness; something that is now in your mind that was not there before, and you didnot put it there yourself.

Consciousness is wisdom - knowing how it is or what it is like.

In Romans 8:29, we are predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son. You can almost put " Consciousness" everywhere image appears and not retard the integrity of the meaning of scripture. In some cases receive more meaning. Conformed to the Consciousness of his Son, or receive the " Mind of Christ." How can we have Christ mind? Well we can be placed on the actual path of his consciousness, or awareness; his waking awareness; his ressurection- it all still fits together. And if you study this, you will see it keeps fitting together in a definte path of scripture.

In Heb. 1:3 , Jesus is " The express Image of God", the radiance of his glory, the " Exact representation of his nature", all this points to him having the consciousness of his Father. The exactness is moreso in consciousness, or the concerns and intrests of God; the activity of God; the thoughts and feelings of God; the internal knowledge of God; the collective thought of God, OR, the consciousness of God.

Jesus " Ressembles God"; how do we resemble God? Well we think; we are conscious; we are " Like him."

In 1Corinth. 8:7 it mentions a conscious being weak is defiled. What do demons go after in order to defile a human.? They target the conscious, they look to distort the image, therefore perverting the path the person may be on toward truth.

Anyhow I just wanted to give the respect of some scriptures as to why I believe this; I would never believe something that is not biblical. I apoligise, I should have shown some scriptures in my first thread and explained and shared why. So I just thought I would give that respect and mu mind can at least be at rest and peace, not wanting to share things without biblical explination.

Anyhow, there are more scriptures, but I wanted to at least leave these few.

Peace.

--- End quote ---

Dear Mikiel,

You're saying, God is Consciousness, without really coming out and saying it.

God is aware, yes.

God enlightens people, yes.

God is the Creator.

Nowhere does it ever say that God is consciousness.

I Googled "God is consciousness."  Just for fun!  Yes, I know you said, God's image is consciousness, but we've already established the fact that Christ IS God, so that's the same thing as saying God is consciousness.    And you'll never guess what I got -- Bill Hicks.  The comedian. 

Unbelievable.   

Well, Bill is dead but he was quoted as saying: 

"God is consciousness and we are all God trying to realize our full potential"

(I'd put up a video of Bill, but the poor guy couldn't get through an entire sentence without dropping the F-bomb.  Not judging.  Better than real ones.  That's what I always say.)

We are all God [consciousness] trying to realize our full potential?  But Bill is currently not conscious of anything seeing how he's currently DEAD.  So, one can assume Bill is NOT God.

And last time I checked, I wasn't worshiping "Consciousness"; I was worshiping the Creator.

Then, you say:  How can Christ be All and " In" all? Does that mean everyone has the Holy Spirit of God? Well no, can't mean that. But, everyone has a consciousness, and it is there that Christ is all and " In All." We all have a consciousness. 

Christ is all in all? 

1 Cor. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him [Christ], then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him [GOD, THE FATHER] that put all things under Him [Christ], that God [THE FATHER] may be all in all.

Then you said:  Consciousness is wisdom. 

Mikiel, there is no consciousness in "wisdom."  God birthed wisdom; however, there is no consciousness in wisdom.  What are you talking about?  Christ has wisdom and so does God the Father.  But Christ came out from the Father AFTER God birthed wisdom.

And if consciousness means wisdom, then everyone with a functioning brain would never be weak.  Christ's flesh was as WEAK as any other mortal human being (only insofar as Christ was acquainted with sickness, not that when He was tempted that He sinned--I'm not saying that!).

And it would mean that no one who has Christ living in them (we are the temple of God) would ever be unwise.  But you said:

In 1Corinth. 8:7 it mentions a conscious being weak is defiled .  What do demons go after in order to defile a human.? They target the conscious, they look to distort the image, therefore perverting the path the person may be on toward truth.

Conscious made weak?  By what?  By the flesh.  If it weren't for these physical bodies with these physical desires and passions, Satan couldn't "dine" on us.  If Satan could dine on consciousness without a physical body, then God would have had no reason to first make the physical, and then the spiritual.

Job 2:2  And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Satan also has consciousness and he is most definitely aware of God.   You see he spoke with God directly, according to the book of Job.  But does Satan also possess wisdom?

I'm sorry, Mikiel--you're not making sense, to me. 

1 Cor. 15:56 But that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

If all that we needed in order to know Christ and be like God, was "consciousness" (and consciousness is not material, but immaterial), for what purpose did God make the material universe and humanity with bodies and brains?  Why did God feel it was necessary to bring about a physical creation first?

mickiel:

--- Quote from: Gina Dear Mikiel,

You're saying, God is Consciousness, without really coming out and saying it.


If all that we needed in order to [b ---know[/b] Christ and be like God, was "consciousness" (and consciousness is not material, but immaterial), for what purpose did God make the material universe and humanity with bodies and brains?  Why did God feel it was necessary to bring about a physical creation first?

--- End quote ---


Greetings Gina, well part of what I am saying is that God is consciousness, or its a definte charactheristic of his being. One can say God is love, God is Peace, God is consciousness, and still be correct in those descriptions. Not that God is a big gob of emotional goo called love, or a notion called peace, or some cloud of nebulous pure conscious thought, but these things are " descriptive of his ways and being", and describes what he " does or will do." God will love, he will be at peace and give peace, and he is conscious and thinks and plans what he will do. I mean he is what he is. And he is conscious, and all conscious life comes from him. Consciousness is the Spirit in man, in every human.

All humans are already " like God." All humans are already made in Gods image, this has absolutely nothing to do with the " calling of God", thats totally a different situation. Being " like" God or being made in his image, means to " resemble God." To be in his " likeness." Now, how can a human dare be like God? And I mean all humans in his image. Its certainly NOT characther, its certainly NOT form or shape; its certainly NOT knowledge; well what is it then that we have which resembles God and we can even dare say we have in common with him? CONSCIOUSNESS! All humans are like God in that we are conscious beings.

Resemble- liken to- image- consciousness!

I recall Ray getting into what is the Kingdom of God and using certain parables to explain what the Kingdom " is like." The Kingdom of God is " like this" or its " like that", or its liken to, or RESEMBLES certain definte things. The parables were giving an " image" of Gods kingdom. Things which resemble it, and those who heard the parables wereNOT  conscious of what they meant. They have the earthy image of God, consciousness, but they were not spiritually conscious, or blessed with the heavenly image  of God.

And this is why many scientist cannot understand that consciousness cannot arrive from mere matter evolving. Its spiritually discerned.

In Rom. 8:29, being predestined to become conformed to the " Image of his Son", doesNOT mean Jesus physical image while he was on earth, as if every called out human are destined to become Christ twin brother or sister. It does not mean a picture of Christ, or to be in a body like Jesus had, it means consciousness; to have the consciousness that Christ has; his mind, his way of thinking; to be aware of what he is aware of, and be aware that your aware! It is degree of reflection; the collective thoughts , intrests, and concerns of God. The waking life and knowledge of Christ- the ressurection.

God made the physical first, the material universe first, so Christ could become a part of that ( which further makes him all  things) and usher us all into a new birth entirely; this is WHY Adam was allowed to be defeated by sin, to create the " Need for Christ to come." Its the process God designed in definte stages. First the physical, or the womb ( the earth). The earth is really a giant incubator, or womb in which we are being created. To ask why the physical creation is like asking why the womb? Why not just bypass the womb and bring all things into pure spiritual living from the getgo? Well thats just how God wanted it to occur, and I wish I knew perfectly why, but I just don't.

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