> General Discussions
Our Heavenly Father's Name & will we ever see Him
cheekie3:
Hi everyone -
I know we are all waiting to see if Ray's Papers on the Enigma of God Reveals the Father's Name; and I have been thinking about this for a while now - and I believe the Father's Name is Jesus, as Jesus declared His Name to us and Jesus is the only Name that Jesus Revealed.
I do not believe we will ever see our Heavenly Father as He Birthed Jesus for the very purpose to Reveal Himself to us through His Son.
I believe we will all eventually see Jesus as He is.
I am content to wait for any news from Ray's Papers, but wanted to share my current thoughts.
Regards, George.
indianabob:
Hi Cheekie3,
Your conclusion that we will never see the Father sounds reasonable based upon what the Bible reveals for us in this age.
However, there are perhaps many more ages to come when the hierarchy of God's government will be developing according to God's plans. So allowing for the scripture that teaches that God's creation will go on and on, expanding and expanding, shouldn't we allow for developments that have not yet entered our simple hearts and minds?
It is not, in my mind, that God needs to allow us the privilege of knowing God more intimently, it is rather that God loves to share intiment things or secrets or mysteries with the children that have been chosen for such things in this age. So why not in the ages to come?
God does not need to gift everyone with the same privileges in order for God to be just or fair. We are after all God's creation and the "potters" clay so to speak and God can use us any way God wishes. In any case we will approve and love God for it whatever our fate shall be.
Indianabob
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on June 14, 2012, 11:09:55 AM ---Hi everyone -
I know we are all waiting to see if Ray's Papers on the Enigma of God Reveals the Father's Name; and I have been thinking about this for a while now - and I believe the Father's Name is Jesus, as Jesus declared His Name to us and Jesus is the only Name that Jesus Revealed.
I do not believe we will ever see our Heavenly Father as He Birthed Jesus for the very purpose to Reveal Himself to us through His Son.
I believe we will all eventually see Jesus as He is.
I am content to wait for any news from Ray's Papers, but wanted to share my current thoughts.
Regards, George.
--- End quote ---
Kat:
Hi George,
I think if Ray had something that he wanted posted, he would have left Dennis with instructions to post it and there has been nothing. So I don't think there is any reason to 'wait' for anything else to come out that Ray might have left.
The emails that are being posted now is something Craig is doing, kind of a memorial I guess. He put this note on the forum a little while back, "Over the last few years I have held back a few emails here and there to post after he is gone so in the next weeks I will post a few of them."
We do not need to be hung up on finding a name for the Father, maybe there is no name that could be uttered that would be suitable for Him. Maybe the reason there does not seem to be a name for the Father is He did not want a particular name given Him. But here are a few place where Ray spoke on the Father and the Son that may help you.
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html --------------
"I and the Father, We are ONE" (John 10:30).
Will all my readers please note that Jesus DID NOT say "I and the Father, We are one GOD," did He? No, He did not!
Do the Scriptures, however, tell us that there is only ONE GOD? Yes, they do.
Do the Scriptures, tell us WHO that ONE God is? Yes, they do.
Do the Scriptures tell us what the relationship of Jesus Christ is with that ONE God? Yes, they do.
In fact, all of these things are answered in ONE Scripture.
I will now give you the ONLY Scripture you will EVER need for understanding Who Jesus Christ and God the Father are and how many Gods there are, and Who composes that ONE God. Here it is:
"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).
And the next verse says
"But NOT IN ALL is there this knowledge" (Ver. 7)
I can say "Amen" to that. Practically "not in all" Christendom is there this knowledge.
If you have not yet THANKED GOD for making these things so clear, so meaningful, and so simple, DO IT NOW!
v
This Scripture tells us that "ALL IS OUT OF" GOD (the FATHER).
And this Scripture tells us that "ALL IS THROUGH" Jesus Christ.
God the Father is the first cause of all and ALL IS OUT GOD, even Jesus Christ is "OUT of God."
"...I [Jesus] came OUT from God. I CAME OUT FROM the FATHER..." (John 16:27-28).
v
Jesus Christ is not the SUPREME DEITY. Christ is not the originator of all. Christ is "the Lord." He is the Son of God. He is the IMAGE of the invisible God. He is the Mediator,
For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).
As I said before, one cannot be both "of" something or someone and at the same time "be" that something or someone. There is certainly no trilateral, triune, trinity of God here!
Jesus Christ said,
"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).
v
"...that the GOD OF OUR LORD Jesus Christ, the FATHER..." (Eph. 1:17).
There it is--Jesus Christ HAS A "GOD!" Paul wrote this and all of the above Scriptures AFTER Jesus Christ was resurrected and restored to His previous GLORIES in God. And in His glorified state, Jesus Christ is STILL subjected to HIS GOD! Who wants to be the first blasphemer to even suggest that God the Father "has a God?"!!! But Jesus Christ, DOES have a God! Notice the following:
Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
Col. 1:3: "We are thanking the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
I Pet. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
And remember these statements concerning Jesus Christ "having a God" were made long after His resurrection and restoration back to His former glories. Today, our Lord STILL HAS A GOD!
There are many more Scriptures that show the distinction between God the Father’s office of supreme deity of the universe and that of His Son and Image, Jesus Christ the Lord and Mediator.
http://bible-truths.com/email17.htm ------------------------------
Jesus Christ and His Father ARE ONE! What does that mean? Has God not given us other examples of how two can be ONE? A husband and wife in union ARE ONE, yet they are individuals. The Son is the VISIBLE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD. That is Scriptural. God manifested HIMSELF to His Creation SONWISE or SONLY. The Son can be seen, the Father CANNOT BE SEEN. John tells us that we will see Jesus AS HE IS. I know of NO Scripture that tells us that we will ever see the Father (do you?). We pray TO the Father IN THE NAME OF Jesus Christ, through the spirit OF God--Both the Father and the Son have the SAME SPIRIT! That the KJV uses the personal pronoun "he" is hardly justification for making the Holy Spirit the third member of triune God.
The relationship between the Son and the Father are mentioned over and over and over again in the Scriptures.
v
We too, mankind, also, like God, have a spirit. Our spirit, however, is NOT A SECOND PERSON! If I am with you 'in spirit' then I AM WITH YOU. My spirit is NOT SOMEONE ELSE! Nor is it an ADDITION to me. Without MY spirit I would not exist. Without GOD'S spirit, GOD WOULD CEASE TO EXIST--GOD IS SPIRIT!!! God communicates and operates throughout the whole universe by HIS spirit. We TOO partake of this same spirit, but not through a third person of a trinity.
Jesus Christ told His disciples before His departure:
"Now, whenever the consoler [Gk: 'parakletos '= BESIDE - CALLer] which I shall be sending you [notice that Christ is the Sender, but FROM the Father], that will be testifying concerning Me" (John 15:26).
v
When we receive the Comforter it is CHRIST, IN SPIRIT [no longer according to the flesh]! IT IS CHRIST THAT COMFORTERS US THROUGH HIS SPIRIT WHICH JOHN PLAINLY TELLS US HE RECEIVED FROM HIS GOD AND FATHER! It is THEIR [the Son's and the Father's] SPIRIT that comes in us! No trinity here! No trinity anywhere!
"Hereby know ye the SPIRIT OF GOD: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is COME IN THE FLESH is of God" (I John 4:2).
"Hereby know we that WE DWELL IN HIM, and HE IN US, because He hath given us OF [genitive--OF] His spirit" (Verse 13).
It is JESUS CHRIST Who comes IN OUR FLESH. To deny that it is JESUS CHRIST Who comes in our flesh is the spirit of ANTICHRIST.
CHRIST is our comforter. CHRIST leads us into all Truth. It is CHRIST in us the hope of glory. CHRIST is the parakletos. And this is all accomplished by the spirit OF God which the Father gave also to Christ and so we have the spirit of both the Son and the Father making its home IN US, not a third person of a fabled trinity!
OF COURSE Jesus Christ is God. He is the VERY IMAGE, THE EXPRESS IMAGE, OF THE INVISIBLE GOD HIMSELF--and that makes Christ GOD. And Jesus and His Father ARE ONE and they operate through ONE SPIRIT--THEIR spirit, not some OTHER person of a trinity.
Sincerely,
Ray
Kat:
I wanted to add this to what I have already posted.
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html ----------------------------------
I am asked: "Is Jesus GOD or isn't He GOD?"
When I answer: "Yes, Jesus IS GOD," they are not satisfied with that answer they want to know: "Well then, as there is only ONE GOD, and if Jesus IS GOD, then Jesus must be THAT ONE GOD INCLUDING THE FATHER, and so by deduction, JESUS IS THE FATHER.
There is no end to the times I get this posed to me. And yes, there are those religions that firmly believe that JESUS CHRIST IS GOD THE FATHER.
When the Pharisees accused Jesus of blaspheming because He said He was "The SON of God," Jesus reminded them that their own scriptures state that, "YE ARE GODS."
"I have said, YE ARE GODS; and all of you are CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH" (Psalm 82:6).
"For WE [Believers] ARE members of His [Jesus] body, of His flesh, and of His bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they TWO shall be ONE flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and THE CHURCH" (Eph. 5:31-32).
"That they ALL may be ONE [Who?--ALL. How many?--ONE] as you Father are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be ONE in US... And the glory which You gave to Me I have given them, that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE" (John 17:21-22).
This IS the Scripture that Jesus quoted. They didn't accept what Jesus said, and people will not accept what I say.
I'll try once more:
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be ONE FLESH" (Gen. 2:24).
How many people?--TWO. How many flesh?--ONE.
There the Scriptural answer!
"...that they may be ONE, even as WE [Jesus AND His Father] ARE O-N- E"!!!
HOW many Persons? Jesus & Father--TWO. HOW many GODS?--O-N-E G-O-D!!!
As a "husband and wife" ARE ONE, and "Jesus and His Church," ARE ONE, so also "Jesus and His Father," ARE ONE.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=13157.0 ---------------------
All of the Scriptures must agree or we are not understanding or
teaching properly. I have said for many years that "Jesus IS GOD" (see pp 22-23
of my article "God is NOT a Trinity." But if Jesus IS God and His Father IS God
don't we then have TWO GODS? There is ONLY ONE GOD! Yes, this does
appear to be an unsolvable enigma, but it is not unsolvable. I have said and taught
further through the years that not only is Jesus God, but He is the ONLY GOD that
we will every truly know in this life. And why do I say that? Well for one thing, that
IS what the Scriptures teach: "And this IS life eternal [eonian--'And this is the
Aionian Life..."--Emphatic Diaglott." ], that they might know Thee the only true God,
and Jesus Christ, Whom Thou has sent" (John 17:3). Yes, it will take "aions/eons"
to come to know God the Father. It won't happen in this life. So what is the purpose
of us receiving eonian life? To come to "...know Thee the only true God..."
v
"Hear O Israel, the LORD thy God is ONE LORD" (Deut. 6:4).
"I and My Father ARE ONE" (John 10:30).
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word [singular] WAS GOD" (John 1:1).
"I am the LORD, and there is non else, there is NO GOD BESIDE ME" (Isa. 45:5--"none
else" ver. 14; "none else" ver. 18; "none beside Me" ver. 21; "I am God, there is none else"
ver. 22; "I am God, there is none like Me," Isa. 46:9; "I am and there is none else beside
Me," Isa. 47:08.
"There is none other God, BUT ONE...But to us there is BUT ONE GOD" (I Cor. 8:4 & 6).
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, 'Hear, O Israel; The Lord
our God is ONE LORD" (Mark. 12:29).
As to how many "Gods" there are, there is no argument! There is but ONE GOD!
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=13141.20 ---------------------
The King James reads:
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom
are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by
whom are all things, and we by Him" (I Cor. 8: 6).
Notice the lite face type added by the translators to make Paul's statement mor
readable. By taking out the added words we lose nothing:
"But to us one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in Him,
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom all things, and we by Him."
Paul's subject in this chapter is "idols." So He is teaching Who the real God is.
Who is the "one God" of Whom he speaks? He answers: "the FATHER," followed
by a description of the Father's role in the universe, but if we take out the description
of His role we loose nothing, as the thought is the same only shortened: "to us there is
one God, THE FATHER. But Paul doesn't end his statement with a period. There is
more to follow. He also speaks of "one Lord Jesus Christ" and a description of His
role in the universe. Okay, let's leave out ALL the descriptive words describing both
of Their roles, and we have this:
"...to us...ONE GOD: the Father...AND...Jesus."
I am not suggesting that this is the way to study all Scripture, by taking out
words, but I am trying to draw attention to the most important words.
Jesus said: "I [Jesus] and My Father are one" (John 10:30). Who is the
"one" in Jesus's statement? The Father? NO--"the Father AND Jesus."
Wow. Isn't that also what Paul really says in I Cor. 8:6?
God be with you,
Ray
Kenneth Clark:
I thought the Fathers name was YHVH or YHWH which is pronounced Yahovah or Yawhey. In the original Hebrew His name is there. They just dont utter it thinking it is too Holy to be pronounced...so they see YHWH in the Torah but read it as a generic Adonai or God.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version