Birthdays Celebrations vs paganism where is the thin line?

[olasupo jacobs]

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
Psa_90:12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom

hi forum members, last saturday was my birthday even though i observe it in the hospital where am treating my diabetic foot for the past one month....as a matter of fact the day i got admitted was when our beloved Ray passed on.... i just want to know if birthdays celebrations is scriptural or a make over of paganistic celebrations?
did Jesus Christ celebrated his b'day? remember Herod's b'day bash resulted in John the baptist death...... where do you draw the line? thanks as u all respond

[Gina]

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

Hi there!

That's your answer.  I don't know about Jesus' birthday, but he even celebrated in the wedding at Cana, remember all the wine he gave them?    

I personally don't give a care to celebrate my own birthday, but if someone wants to take me out for a meal or give me a gift or a party I'm not turning them down, that's fudangsho!  (I just think it's too much pressure to be putting on people -- you know, a "Happy Birthday, Gina" does me good.  But that's me.)

There are nine kids in my family.  We wish each other a Happy B-Day (IF we remember to) and leave it at that.

But I think you should celebrate any day you so desire.

I'm sorry you've been the hospital for so long.  Thanks for letting us know so we can at least pray for you.  I hope you get better soon. 

Oh and.. Happy Belated Birthday!

[Gina]

p.s.  And if anyone gives you a hard time about which holidays you want to celebrate, remind them:  The pagans wore shoes, too, should we all stop wearing shoes because the pagans wore shoes? 

[newgene87]

this sort of reminds me of a verse i read in Ecclesiastes.

"Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof..." (Ecc 7:

now that may be in the middle of thought, but the word of God is filled with truths needled in various concepts. i take from that, why dwell or even celebrate the beginning of something? i mean, no doubt, even Jesus told us to 'somewhat' celebrate his DEATH (end) till his coming with the giving of the cup of the covenant or whatever. but is it wrong?

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. (Rom 14:5-6)

pray on it sir. and then Paul adds, "The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God. Happy is he that judgeth not himself in that which he approveth." (v.22) Now i dont want to interpret these scriptures in just meaning, do whatever, but have the fear of God. I mean, we're told to "Give Thanks in WHATEVER circumstance" (1Th 5:18). so if it happens to be something in you to give thanks to God concerning the day of your birth, aye, by all means, give thanks. but Solomon reveals, the end of a thing is better than it's beginning. not saying the beginning doesnt mean anything. and oh yea, HAPPY BELATED AS WELL . be blessed

[mmijares]

Ecc 7:16 NIV
Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise--why destroy yourself?

Regardless whether or not Christ and his apostles celebrated their birthdays, I stick with the above scripture and apply it not only in birthdays but in other days (christimas, new year, valentines day, etc.) where legalistic churches tagged as pagan.

I do not think I sin nor believe that God will hold it against me if I happen to want celebrate birthdays, etc.  Yes, if I happen to want to... because most of the times, I don't.

-Mike 

[mharrell08]

remember Herod's b'day bash resulted in John the baptist death......

What does that have to do with celebrating birthdays? Everyday is filled with some type of evil, but yet, every day is someone's birthday. The two ideas have nothing to do with each other.

Keep in mind, it's the attitude behind the activity that either brings one praise or brings about their downfall.

[Foxx]

celebrating one's birthday is not, in and of itself, wrong. However like many things in our culture the birthday celebration is not untainted by pagan rituals and practices. You should look up for yourself but the few thing I know of and have learned about is the fact that birthday celebrations were an important part to the creation of astrology and mysticism. The only time birthdays are mentioned in the Bible is in regards to the Pharoh or Herod.  The last thing I know of is about cakes. Honey cakes had candles placed on them (or torches were set up) in ancient times and people would blow out the candles and make a wish to the gods (roman or Greek or whatever) and if you blew out all your candles the gods would grant your wish.

so with all that said I suppose you can look it up for yourself and decide. These are things I have come across over the last year or so. You may find other things though.

Blessings!

[indianabob]

Good morning Foxx,
As you say, we have many traditions and habits that come from paganism that we don't even think about in that regard. For example the names of the days of the week, sun-day, moon-day, thor's-day, saturn's-day and so forth. The error, if there is one to be concerned about, is whether we make any day or any tradition an idol of the heart that we place above our reverence for and worship of the true God.
As true believers and followers of our Lord Jesus we are to consider each of these things carefully and to make righteous judgments concerning how they may affect us in our personal walk with God.

Thanks for your comments, Indianabob

[eggi]

Hi all, writing from vacation in Sicily. We just celebrated a birthday here. Not one who was present thought that blowing out the candles would cause some pagan gods to grant a wish. Nobody thought that the celebration was in praise of a pagan fertility god. Actually apart from the cake and the candles and gifts which actually can help make a very nice atmosphere there was nothing different about this party compared to an ordinary afternoon visit. We sang the birthday song. I think it's alright to do this. IF someone actually celebrated their birthday in praise of a pagan god I would think differently about it. This is the same as Christmas, Easter etc. All pagan, but for some people these are the only times of the year when they think about God. What's wrong with that? Should I be holier-than-thou and judge people and separate from family and friends because of my self-perceived holiness? Kill someone's faith before it's even started?

God bless you,
Eirik

Tanti auguri a te/Happy Birthday

[Marky Mark]

Good morning Foxx,
As you say, we have many traditions and habits that come from paganism that we don't even think about in that regard. For example the names of the days of the week, sun-day, moon-day, thor's-day, saturn's-day and so forth. The error, if there is one to be concerned about, is whether we make any day or any tradition an idol of the heart that we place above our reverence for and worship of the true God.
As true believers and followers of our Lord Jesus we are to consider each of these things carefully and to make righteous judgments concerning how they may affect us in our personal walk with God.

Thanks for your comments, Indianabob

Thanks Bob,I could not agree with you more.We should never exalt ourselves above that which is written.When we do so, we then put ourselves on the throne and condense Gods Word into idols of the heart, and in doing so, reduce Gods words into the traditions of men,which in turn take away the Rightful worship, that He so deserves.

We must always judge the spirit and not the person.In doing so, we can then have a deeper understanding of what the Word is conveying to all that believe,in Spirit and in Truth of His Word.

I myself try to never think above that which is is written 1Co 4:6. That for me is a high mark of attainment in my Spiritual journey,however hard that may be at times.The Word does not and can not lie...




Gal 4:10 You pay special attention to certain days, months, seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am worried about you! Can it be that all my work for you has been for nothing?
Gal 4:12 I beg you, my friends, be like me. After all, I am like you. You have not done me any wrong.

Mat 15:6 And [thus] ye make void the word of God, for the sake of your tradition.

Job 1:4  And his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one upon his day; and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
Job 1:5  And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt-offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said: 'It may be that my sons have sinned, and blasphemed God in their hearts.' Thus did Job continually.

Job 3:1  After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
Job 3:2  And Job spake, and said,
Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

Mat 23:12  And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Mar 7:8 Having, dismissed, the commandment, of God, ye, hold fast, the tradition, of men.
Mar 7:9 And he was saying to them—Well, do ye set aside the commandment of God, that, your own tradition, ye may observe;

1Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Gal 4:9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Col 2:20  Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Ecc 7:1  Better a name, than precious ointment,—and the day of death, than the day of one's birth.
Ecc 7:2 Better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of banqueting, for, that, is the end of all men,—and, the living, should take it to his heart.


Peace...Mark

[Foxx]

Hi all, writing from vacation in Sicily. We just celebrated a birthday here. Not one who was present thought that blowing out the candles would cause some pagan gods to grant a wish. Nobody thought that the celebration was in praise of a pagan fertility god. Actually apart from the cake and the candles and gifts which actually can help make a very nice atmosphere there was nothing different about this party compared to an ordinary afternoon visit. We sang the birthday song. I think it's alright to do this. IF someone actually celebrated their birthday in praise of a pagan god I would think differently about it. This is the same as Christmas, Easter etc. All pagan, but for some people these are the only times of the year when they think about God. What's wrong with that? Should I be holier-than-thou and judge people and separate from family and friends because of my self-perceived holiness? Kill someone's faith before it's even started?

God bless you,
Eirik

Tanti auguri a te/Happy Birthday

I hope the birthday was a good one Erik, I'm sure it was enjoyable for all. I'll make one more comment regarding this topic and the I'll be on my way.

I'm glad to know that no wishes were made to pagan gods, I doubt anyone does anymore, however the thread was asking about birthdays and paganism so I gave my answer. I never condemned birthdays or birthday cake or candles. Honestly I don't know if my next birthday will have cake and candles, stepping away from time old traditions is awkward but this year I didn't celebrate easter, it was first time I literally did nothing for the holiday. I haven't acknowledged Halloween and I don't think I should.

You're right Christmas and other holidays are sometimes the only point in the year when some people think about God but it is not being "holier than thou" if I choose not to celebrate them.  All the religious holidays (with exception to perhaps Jewish based ones) are for US not for God. God does not care if I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter. These are not holidays ordained by God. If someone does not wish to participate in Easter or Christmas and a person asks why its a simple explanation. I have a hard time believing if there is a person in your life who is genuinely interested in understanding more about God and they want to hear from you, I'm sure Christimas isn't the only time you can talk to them about it. Not participating in holidays does not mean I judge those who do. I approach it the same way I do all other things: if they are interested in why I tell them, if not then I don't. I don't discuss or challenge people much anymore regarding what I have learned from Ray's page because, as he has said, you can tell someone but if they aren't ready to hear there is no point.

[Dave in Tenn]

I searched for quite a while, but since my 'search' parameters include most of the forum, there are a lot of 'birthday' mentions to sort through.  Still, I found this.  And I'll stop there as I need to go make me an ark of gopher wood.

Ray, I have found only two occasions where the celebration of birthdays are listed in the bible.  The Old Testament talks about not following the traditions of the pagans and so also does the New Testament. Since my research shows that the history of birthday celebrations is definitely a pagan tradition, how do you view it.
DA


Dear DA:  Keeping account of one's age and year of birth is mentioned dozens and dozens of times in Scriptures. No, it does not use such terms as "birthday parties," but it may well been a day of recognition and celebration.
God be with you,
Ray

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm pretty sure DA above had his/her mind made up when he/she shot the question off to Ray.  Ray was wise enough not to take the bait, imo.

These kinds of threads have a long history of going 'south'.  IF we can keep to the purpose of the forum, we can probably leave it open.  If not, then we can't.

[Dave in Tenn]

Here's the email reply Gina alluded to above:

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2759.0.html

[Gina]

Gal 4:10 You pay special attention to certain days, months, seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am worried about you! Can it be that all my work for you has been for nothing?
Gal 4:12 I beg you, my friends, be like me. After all, I am like you. You have not done me any wrong.

Mat 15:6 And [thus] ye make void the word of God, for the sake of your tradition.

Paul is speaking of those "traditions" put in place to BURDEN people.  This is not talking about a simple celebration.  If that were the case, then Jesus would have never celebrated in the wedding at Cana.

Job 1:4  And his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one upon his day; and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
Job 1:5  And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt-offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said: 'It may be that my sons have sinned, and blasphemed God in their hearts.' Thus did Job continually.
Job 3:1  After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
Job 3:2  And Job spake, and said,
Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

Yes, and while Job was inspired to say all of that, don't you remember?

Job 38

1 Then Jehovah answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel By words without knowledge? 

scripture, scripture, scripture...

Job 42

1 Then Job answered Jehovah, and said,
2 I know that thou canst do all things, And that no purpose of thine can be restrained.
3 Who is this that hideth counsel without knowledge? Therefore have I uttered that which I understood NOT, Things too wonderful for me, which I knew NOT.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak; I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear; But now mine eye seeth thee:
6 Wherefore I abhor myself , And repent in dust and ashes.

Mat 23:12  And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

That has nothing to do with celebrating a birthday or any other holiday.  This has to do with not being honest with God about who and what you are.  It's about pretending you're pristine, when in reality you're full of ... dead men's bones. 

Mar 7:8 Having, dismissed, the commandment, of God, ye, hold fast, the tradition, of men.
Mar 7:9 And he was saying to them—Well, do ye set aside the commandment of God, that, your own tradition, ye may observe;

Again, this is speaking of those LAWS that the pharisees and scribes put in place to BURDEN people and keep them tied in knots, this is not speaking of a birthday celebration.

1Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Gal 4:9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Col 2:20  Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Again, this is speaking of those who chose to turn their backs on Christ and trample His blood by observing the LAWS (ordinances are LAWS! something they [felt they] MUST obey to be right with God) that the pharisees and scribes put in place to BURDEN people and keep them tied in knots, this is not speaking of a birthday celebration.

Ecc 7:1  Better a name, than precious ointment,—and the day of death, than the day of one's birth.
Ecc 7:2 Better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of banqueting, for, that, is the end of all men,—and, the living, should take it to his heart.

This is speaking of a person's reputation and of their birth and death.  This is not talking about not celebrating birthdays.  And having looked at that more closely, I find that prophetically comforting actually, seeing how I am terrified of dying.

Saying one thing is better than another doesn't mean it'd be UNLAWFUL to attend a banquet or be BORN.  LOL !  I mean, I've heard people joke :  "Well, pardon me for living."  But it's a joke party people.    It's sarcasm at its finest.

I REST this case.

Peace. 

[eggi]

Hi all, writing from vacation in Sicily. We just celebrated a birthday here. Not one who was present thought that blowing out the candles would cause some pagan gods to grant a wish. Nobody thought that the celebration was in praise of a pagan fertility god. Actually apart from the cake and the candles and gifts which actually can help make a very nice atmosphere there was nothing different about this party compared to an ordinary afternoon visit. We sang the birthday song. I think it's alright to do this. IF someone actually celebrated their birthday in praise of a pagan god I would think differently about it. This is the same as Christmas, Easter etc. All pagan, but for some people these are the only times of the year when they think about God. What's wrong with that? Should I be holier-than-thou and judge people and separate from family and friends because of my self-perceived holiness? Kill someone's faith before it's even started?

God bless you,
Eirik

Tanti auguri a te/Happy Birthday

I hope the birthday was a good one Erik, I'm sure it was enjoyable for all. I'll make one more comment regarding this topic and the I'll be on my way.

I'm glad to know that no wishes were made to pagan gods, I doubt anyone does anymore, however the thread was asking about birthdays and paganism so I gave my answer. I never condemned birthdays or birthday cake or candles. Honestly I don't know if my next birthday will have cake and candles, stepping away from time old traditions is awkward but this year I didn't celebrate easter, it was first time I literally did nothing for the holiday. I haven't acknowledged Halloween and I don't think I should.

You're right Christmas and other holidays are sometimes the only point in the year when some people think about God but it is not being "holier than thou" if I choose not to celebrate them.  All the religious holidays (with exception to perhaps Jewish based ones) are for US not for God. God does not care if I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter. These are not holidays ordained by God. If someone does not wish to participate in Easter or Christmas and a person asks why its a simple explanation. I have a hard time believing if there is a person in your life who is genuinely interested in understanding more about God and they want to hear from you, I'm sure Christimas isn't the only time you can talk to them about it. Not participating in holidays does not mean I judge those who do. I approach it the same way I do all other things: if they are interested in why I tell them, if not then I don't. I don't discuss or challenge people much anymore regarding what I have learned from Ray's page because, as he has said, you can tell someone but if they aren't ready to hear there is no point.

I see that nothing I wrote was added here. Must be my mobile connection. Basically what I wrote was that my post was not directed at you Foxx, but at those who actually try to straighten out and condemn others who do celebrate these events.

God bless you

[onelovedread]

I was going to invite you all to my 60th birthday next year, but since you're all so 'holier than thou', no way!
I'm only inviting the Lord.
Telling me I'm a dern pagan. So rude. grumble grumble, the nerve of them, thinking they're so righteous....

[Gina]

psshh...  See how ya are?   

[gmik]

Good thread again...shows up time to time....let me add:  YOGA.....

my "christian" friends think it is so bad and I am  praying to Indian gods...ah ummm NO, I am exercising .

since there is NO SUCH things as pagan gods......  

[newgene87]

it stands true: "nevertheless, in all man there is NOT this knowledge..." (1Co 8:7).