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Author Topic: Spiritual body seperate from flesh  (Read 9663 times)

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joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2006, 10:00:36 AM »

Spirit, flesh, spirit but able to manifest as flesh.....or ....something else?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:1

Just a thought! :)
joyful1
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Sorin

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2006, 12:30:47 PM »



Eph 5:30  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.




This is really interesting because these two verses seem to contradict each other. Unless of course it doesn't say "flesh and bones" in the CLV, Rotherham and Original Greek manuscripts as Brett pointed out.
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rocky

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2006, 01:59:02 PM »

Interlinear greek online I have states this of Eph 5:30


that members we-are of-the body of-Him.
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2006, 03:49:37 PM »

Spirit, flesh, spirit but able to manifest as flesh.....or ....something else?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:1

Just a thought! :)
joyful1



This has been an interesting thread but bottom line to me is WE Shall Be Like HIM....that is too awesome, so whatever it is .....I is!!!!
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2006, 04:48:51 PM »

From Rotherham's Emphasized;

Eph 5:29 No one in fact hateth his own flesh, but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as (the Christ) the assembly,

Eph 5:30 Because (members) are we of His body;
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Layla

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2006, 07:58:04 PM »

This is a good thread with lots of good thoughts.  I wanted to share what I have come to see regarding Ezekiel 44.

Ezekiel 44:15-23
But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD: They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.  And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within. They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.  And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.  Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.  Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.  Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.  And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

I believe the exchanging linen for wool means bodies. I believe it is this linen garment that Jesus Christ resurrected in and the woolen body that Jesus Christ appeared before the disciples in.  I believe those who attain to the first resurrection are these Zadok that are capable are doing exactly what Jesus did.  They are resurrected into a "linen" (spiritual) body and dwell in it when in the spiritual realm ministering to Christ and it is exchanged for their "wool" (flesh and bones) body when they are in the physical realm ministering to those who did not attain to the first resurrection. 

Peace,
Layla
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Brett

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2006, 03:14:41 PM »

Layla,

Thanks for the sharing us in scriptures. This is new to me!! :D

Brett
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joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2006, 11:39:34 PM »

Genesis 2:23

"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Eve was created from Adam, by God and given to Adam by God.

The Bride of Christ is being created from Christ (the body of Christ) by God... and the bride is being given to Christ by God.....so the reference to the flesh and bone seems to be one of a spiritual nature.....any thoughts?

joyful1
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jennifer

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2006, 07:55:10 PM »

Rocky,
I would say that those in the LOF receive their incorrupt glorified spiritual body after judgement.  We enter the Kingdom of God straight after the judgement seat: Matt. 25:34-Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take your inheritance, the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world."
1 Thess. 4:16,17 lists the events associated with Christ's return: 1) Christ visibly returns, 2) The righteous dead are raised, and 3) the righteous responsible who are alive at the time will be snatched away to judgement.  The granting of eternal life is after this gathering together (Matt. 25:31-34, 13:41-43); therefore immortality cannot be given at the resurrection, seeing that this precedes the gathering together.
Grace be with you,
Jennifer
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jerreye

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2006, 09:25:37 PM »

Hi Jennifer,

"For the time HAS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the house of God (God's elect)".

I believe the scriptures state that judgment for God's people is now, in their natural lifetime, not after the resurrection.

For those outside the Kingdom (everyone who is not one of the elected Sons of God) are judged after their resurrection (which is the second resurrection) and purified through the lake of fire. Then they are able to come into the Kingdom.

The scriptures also state that "that is not first which is spiritual, but what is natural (natural life is first),then AFTERWARD the spiritual", thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again).

I believe this is what Ray teaches on his website. If not, then someone smack me in the shnozz!
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rocky

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2006, 11:18:27 PM »

Hi Jennifer,

"For the time HAS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the house of God (God's elect)".

I believe the scriptures state that judgment for God's people is now, in their natural lifetime, not after the resurrection.

For those outside the Kingdom (everyone who is not one of the elected Sons of God) are judged after their resurrection (which is the second resurrection) and purified through the lake of fire. Then they are able to come into the Kingdom.

The scriptures also state that "that is not first which is spiritual, but what is natural (natural life is first),then AFTERWARD the spiritual", thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again).

I believe this is what Ray teaches on his website. If not, then someone smack me in the shnozz!

So are you thinking the LOF and the "second" resurrection are the same thing, meaning resurrection is a process???
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jerreye

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2006, 01:35:18 AM »

Hi Jennifer,

"For the time HAS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the house of God (God's elect)".

I believe the scriptures state that judgment for God's people is now, in their natural lifetime, not after the resurrection.

For those outside the Kingdom (everyone who is not one of the elected Sons of God) are judged after their resurrection (which is the second resurrection) and purified through the lake of fire. Then they are able to come into the Kingdom.

The scriptures also state that "that is not first which is spiritual, but what is natural (natural life is first),then AFTERWARD the spiritual", thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again).

I believe this is what Ray teaches on his website. If not, then someone smack me in the shnozz!

So are you thinking the LOF and the "second" resurrection are the same thing, meaning resurrection is a process???

Rocky, I'm not certain how you came to that conclusion based on what I said (?) I do not believe the second resurrection is a process. I believe it is a single event in time. However, I believe that the LOF will be a process...that's for sure :) The LOF follows the second resurrection.
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2006, 03:35:57 AM »

Hi Jennifer,

"For the time HAS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the house of God (God's elect)".

I believe the scriptures state that judgment for God's people is now, in their natural lifetime, not after the resurrection.

For those outside the Kingdom (everyone who is not one of the elected Sons of God) are judged after their resurrection (which is the second resurrection) and purified through the lake of fire. Then they are able to come into the Kingdom.

The scriptures also state that "that is not first which is spiritual, but what is natural (natural life is first),then AFTERWARD the spiritual", thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again).

I believe this is what Ray teaches on his website. If not, then someone smack me in the shnozz!

So are you thinking the LOF and the "second" resurrection are the same thing, meaning resurrection is a process???

Rocky, I'm not certain how you came to that conclusion based on what I said (?) I do not believe the second resurrection is a process. I believe it is a single event in time. However, I believe that the LOF will be a process...that's for sure :) The LOF follows the second resurrection.

my misunderstanding, I thot this quote " thus all of those in the LOF / second resurrection must be resurrected with spiritual bodies and not natural bodies. (spiritual is after the natural, not the natural again)"  was connecting the two as one with the slash. 

sorry.

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jerreye

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2006, 01:58:17 PM »

ahhhh, I see how you came tothat conclusion. No need to be sorry :)
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joeshrink

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2006, 05:40:30 PM »

I recently read a book about the mind-spirit problem. Basically the western christian mind set which is dualistic (soul/body) is in deep doodoo (I try to use technical language when I can) scientifically. With the advent of the MRI, science has been able to dispell many myths about the brain and how it functions. Out of this recent research a very minimalistic phylosophy has grown. There are many who believe (and have solid proof) that we really are a sum of chemical and electrical impulses and that a lot of what we think is free will really is predisposition and that our fate is tied to our genes and environment.

The crux of the issue is that when the brain is damaged the essence of the person can change drastically, even engaging in what the Christian world calls sinful behavior- even uncrontrolably. A good example of this is people who have frontal lobe damage  (which is thought to be the center of reason) become very impulsive (follow this link to Phineas Gage http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/phineas-gage) 'So what' you may say. The problem is that those people who were "saved" and lead very Christian lives changed the moment damage occured to their brains.

Here is where I am struggling...

I have always had a fairly deep belief in the afterlife and heaven and hell. I now have had to rethink much of my understanding because I cannot ignore what research after research is finding. I recently have had some conversations with others who are leaning towards the notion that when Jesus spoke of eternal life he was speaking of finite abundant life. It has occured to me that a greater sacrifice would be to live this finite life as Jesus did with the motivation of love--- without the rewards of a positive afterlife. 

What do ya'll think- I have thick skin so you can let me have it!

Joeshrink
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2006, 06:31:46 PM »

Hello again Joe,

Read this and let us know what you think;

http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm

Joe

1Co 1:20  Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Co 3:19  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
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Craig

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2006, 06:34:10 PM »

I recently read a book about the mind-spirit problem. Basically the western christian mind set which is dualistic (soul/body) is in deep doodoo (I try to use technical language when I can) scientifically. With the advent of the MRI, science has been able to dispell many myths about the brain and how it functions. Out of this recent research a very minimalistic phylosophy has grown. There are many who believe (and have solid proof) that we really are a sum of chemical and electrical impulses and that a lot of what we think is free will really is predisposition and that our fate is tied to our genes and environment.

The crux of the issue is that when the brain is damaged the essence of the person can change drastically, even engaging in what the Christian world calls sinful behavior- even uncrontrolably. A good example of this is people who have frontal lobe damage  (which is thought to be the center of reason) become very impulsive (follow this link to Phineas Gage http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/phineas-gage) 'So what' you may say. The problem is that those people who were "saved" and lead very Christian lives changed the moment damage occured to their brains.

Here is where I am struggling...

I have always had a fairly deep belief in the afterlife and heaven and hell. I now have had to rethink much of my understanding because I cannot ignore what research after research is finding. I recently have had some conversations with others who are leaning towards the notion that when Jesus spoke of eternal life he was speaking of finite abundant life. It has occured to me that a greater sacrifice would be to live this finite life as Jesus did with the motivation of love--- without the rewards of a positive afterlife. 

What do ya'll think- I have thick skin so you can let me have it!

Joeshrink

I think you are still searching, and that is a good thing.  I would suggest reading the material on the bible-truths site a few times, with an open bible or bibles and prayerfully study.  Conversation with people with varying beliefs is good IMO, but be grounded in the truth,  if you do as I said I think you will be well on your way.

Blessings to you,

Craig
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ned

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2006, 07:17:12 PM »

Here is where I am struggling...

I have always had a fairly deep belief in the afterlife and heaven and hell. I now have had to rethink much of my understanding because I cannot ignore what research after research is finding. I recently have had some conversations with others who are leaning towards the notion that when Jesus spoke of eternal life he was speaking of finite abundant life. It has occured to me that a greater sacrifice would be to live this finite life as Jesus did with the motivation of love--- without the rewards of a positive afterlife. 

What do ya'll think- I have thick skin so you can let me have it!   Joeshrink   

Dear Joeshrink:
Welcome to our forum!

Your quote: "a greater sacrifice would be to live this finite life as Jesus did with the motivation of love",

Definitely we should give OURSELVES over to Jesus in love, but I don't believe everyone can do this, because not everyone is pre-determrined to.
Joh 6:44  "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him.."

Those which have been drawn by God are expected to sacrifice themselves.
Rom 12:1  "I beseech you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

Our forum has been talking recently about "free will" which I believe will be of interest to you. (see the thread "Free Will")


Your quote: "without the rewards of a positive afterlife".
I believe there are rewards of a positive afterlife":

1Co 3:14  "If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

Rev 11:18  "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Rev 22:12  "And, behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."


In His Name,
Marie
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jennifer

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Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2006, 07:52:20 PM »

thanks Bobby,
I've reread those LOF series again and am still stuck on Heb. 9:27-28: Just as human beings have to die once, but after this comes judement, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to deliver those who are eagerly waiting for him.  Obviously I need to meditate deeply on those scriptures in LOF 5 & 6.  However, I have never been a beliver in the Rapture and did glean some pearls of widsom from that article.  I ask that you all pray for me that God opens my mind to further comprehension of those truths in the LOF 5 & 6 articles. 
Grace be with you.
Jennifer
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joeshrink

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2006, 08:06:15 PM »

Quote
Definitely we should give OURSELVES over to Jesus in love, but I don't believe everyone can do this, because not everyone is pre-determrined to.

I have heard this before. I guess you should feel very blessed that you are chosen. Too bad though for those who are not.

As for the scripture you chose to illustrate your point I do not see how that suggests predeterminism. And as for the scriptures you quoted to illustrate a "positive afterlife" - they do not say when that reward will come. My point in my post was that I do not need a carrot dangled in front of my nose to live a life that is loving- both inward and outward.

Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

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