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Author Topic: King of the Eons?  (Read 1421 times)

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newgene87

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King of the Eons?
« on: July 21, 2012, 07:23:59 PM »

I finally read the paper "Seven Wonders of Hell" and I love it of course. The ground work for the site; but I checked this reference of Revelation 15:3 and I don't see it what Ray was referring to. First, here's the quote...

"Christ reigns over these two eons because Rev. 15:3 plainly tells us that He is "King of the eons." Except the King James Version, that is. The King James has it "King of saints." The "exact" Greek word in this verse is "eons," not "saints" or "nations." The Greek word for "saints" is agion not aions."

Okay, I have a strongs kjv and that "saints" says, "hagios" -- and that means holy, sacred and pure one(s). Was this a mistake on his part? He mentions it again, yet I still don't see it.  Orrrr has this already been addressed? Just wondering cause I would like to clarify that one point. Everything else is golden.  ESPECIALLY "If "for ever" means "always" or "eternity," what pray does "and for ever" mean? Is that something like whiter than white"

 HILARIOUS! ;D. Ray nailed it

Thanks
Eugene
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G. Driggs

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Re: King of the Eons?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 10:07:13 AM »

Hi Eugene,

The Concordant Literal Version has it as "King of the eons" as do many other versions along with "King of Nations". Not sure why the KJV has it that way. Could be because the words look so similar in the Greek and someone goofed or they did not like the idea of Jesus only ruling for a few ages or maybe it was their way of holding on to the UN-scriptural "for ever" that the KJV likes to use to try and prove eternal torture.

Rev 15:3 And they are singing the song of Moses, the slave of God, and the song of the Lambkin, saying, "Great and marvelous are Thy acts, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Thy ways, King of the eons!" (CLV)

Rev 15:3  And they sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb, saying, Mighty and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God the Omnipotent! Righteous (just) and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the ages (King of the nations)! [Exod. 15:1; Ps. 145:17.] (AMP)

Rev 15:3 and they sing the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb, saying—Great and marvelous, are thy works, Lord, God, the Almighty! Righteous and true, are thy ways, O King of the ages! (Rotherhams)

The NSB gives three different possible translations in parenthesis. Guess they wanted to cover their bases.

Rev 15:3 They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: »Great and marvelous are your works, Jehovah God, the Almighty; just and true are your ways, you King of the ages (Eternal King) (King of the nations) (King of the holy ones). (Deuteronomy 31:30; 32:4) (Exodus 6:3) (NSB)

Here is a thread from 2010 where it was discussed. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=11181.0

I did a google search and it seems the oldest manuscripts use "King of eons". Im sure Ray knew this which could be part of why he went with it. Which reminds of something he once said about Jesus ruling only till everything has been put under His feet and He turns the reigns over to His Father. Ray actually gives a few witnesses to Rev 15:3.

http://www.bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm

The Greek Scriptures tell us that Christ will reign "for the eons of the eons" or "the ages of the ages." Not "for the eons of the eons of the eons" as your statement suggests. "For the eons of the eons" makes simple and exact sense, and is in harmony with other Scriptures. "For ever and ever" contradicts dozens of other Scriptures, as we will see. The truth is, "for ever and ever" is a contradiction by itself. Both language and logic forbid duplication of anything infinite. There is no such thing as "several eternities" or "multiple for evers" or "numerous everlastings."

In Rev. 11:15 both "eons" are in the PLURAL. So if someone insists that an "aion" means "for ever" or "eternity," then "aions" would be "for evers" or "eternities." Hence it would have to be translated "for evers of evers" or "for eternities of eternities." What sense is there in such contradictory phrases?

And notice please, the Greek is "aions of the aions" not "aions after the aions" or "aions upon the aions." Could it be that there is an "exactness" and purity here that the clergy are failing to teach?

So how are we to understand the Scripture that says Christ will "reign for the eons of the eons?" It's quite simple.

Christ "reigns for the eons of the eons" because He reigns for only two eons out of all the other eons. He will reign for the next two eons. That is, He will reign for the thousand years (the next eon) and He reigns during the New Heaven and the New Earth, the eon after that.

Christ reigns over these two eons because Rev. 15:3 plainly tells us that He is "King of the eons." Except the King James Version, that is. The King James has it "King of saints." The "exact" Greek word in this verse is "eons," not "saints" or "nations." The Greek word for "saints" is agion not aions.

I will prove that both of these eons, over which Christ will reign, have beginnings and have ends, which excludes any possibility that they last "for ever."

See its simplicity: There was a time before God made any eons (I Cor. 2:7). Then God made the eons (Heb. 1:2). There were eons in the past (Col 1:26). We are living in this present wicked eon (Gal. 1:4). Satan is the god of this eon (II Cor. 4:4). Christ, not Satan, will reign a thousand years in the next eon (Lk 1:33). The thousand years will come to an end (Rev. 20:3). Christ will reign in the eon that follows the thousand years (Rev. 22:5 and Lk. 1:33). Hence, He reigns for the "eons" (the next two) "of the eons" (all others).

Then the last eon comes to an end (I Cor. 10:11). Christ ceases to reign after the eons come to an end (I Cor. 15:24:28) because He turns over the Kingdom to God His Father and God becomes "all in all." The eons end, but that which is of the Kingdom continues (Lk 1:33 & Isa. 9:7). We all continue "living" after the eons because, just like God, we will then all have been given immortality.

But Mr. Hagee, we insult Christ to contend that He reigns for ever. If that were true, then He would never accomplish His mission of " ... placing all His enemies under His feet" (I Cor. 15:25). That's why the Scriptures plainly tell us that He reigns until that is accomplished.

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Seems the whole point Ray was getting at was how long Jesus' reign is to be and he proved it using at least two witnesses.

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newgene87

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Re: King of the Eons?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 10:12:38 AM »

thank you so much! Fix that right on up. idk why i JUST saw my Rotherham say ages smh. I just looked that word up in the strongs and it threw me off. but thanks!
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