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Our role in a fallen world
Gina:
--- Quote from: octoberose on July 31, 2012, 12:31:03 AM ---I think you all make some thoughtful points.
Regarding Ray's take on being an ambassador, the only thing about that I never have fully grasped is that an ambassador doesn't pay taxes to the country he is sent to and we pay them in abundance. We're also not immune from the consequences of breaking the law. (Though I don't know what the 'rights' of an ambassador were in the first century).
I guess the thing is that no matter what we do we act in faith, and we never deny Christ. I suppose I'm wrestling with how to claim Christ in this world, be in the world and not OF it.
--- End quote ---
Even He hung around the tax collectors and the drunks but it was to bring them out of the world, not to party with them and He most certainly would not have gotten drunk.
Can you imagine Jesus so drunk like the drunks He had chosen to follow Him that He would also be slurring His words and couldn't walk STRAIGHT? Stumbling around like some young fool? The thought is preposterous and not befitting a King! But the pharisees and keepers of the law had to accuse Him of being a drunkard and a glutton. He was none of those things - which isn't to say He never ate or drank at all. Obviously He did but not to the extent to which He was accused (remember, the pharisees and keepers of the law were all jealous of Him -- they were LIARS.)
Octoberose, consider that Jesus was sent into the world by the Father. When He said, render to Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are Gods, He never broke the laws of God. When it came time to pay the temple tax, He told Peter to go to the sea and pull up a fish and take the coin out of its mouth and pay the temple tax for BOTH of them (He and Peter). Did Jesus have to pay the tax? No, He didn't have to because the Son is free, but as He told Peter He paid them as to not cause offense.
He never broke God's laws, not even when He healed on the Sabbath; He always did what pleased His Father. He worked with His own hands as a carpenter and so of course He also had business dealings with people from all walks of life. Did you know that the money He earned as a carpenter came from people who were sinners? Did you know that the very people who supported His ministry were women and they too were sinners.
Jesus voluntarily came into this world -- the very one He made -- though He was not of it, and he did that knowing it was FILLED with sinners, for all have sinned, save one.
Of course He ate and bought things from sinners. Being in the world and not of it/ambassador, doesn't mean we break laws or separate ourselves from others to the extent that we become overly righteous much.
We might buy from sinners because we have to; and we render to Caesar the things that are Caesars. That's not the same thing as marrying or siding with the party of gay rights supporters. My daughter is a gay rights supporter. She's in a same sex relationship. I love her. I don't agree with her views; I don't even LIKE her views but I'll be darned if she ever came to me needing me when she's suffering from one of her panic attacks or needing money to buy food that I don't give her what she needs. That's not the same thing as me holding up one of her protest signs or marching for her.
You know that bible you're holding with the words hell in it that you get your spiritual manna from? Well, that also came from a company of sinners.
Jesus came to make our burden light and so often we think it's necessary to turn around and burden ourselves and in doing so we burden others. (Acts 15:28-29)
Buying from Amazon isn't endorsing gay marriage.
octoberose:
Gina, why are you so mad at me?
This started because I was in the middle of deleting an Amazon account, and then stopped because it was just kind of absurd. The world is, as you point out, filled with sinners. I just was feeling uncomfortable with giving Jeff Bezos more money to add to his millions when he was giving it to organizations that are trying to tear down marriage.
And Gina, I fully expect you to give your daughter love and comfort however you need to give it as a mother, no matter what. Just as I give it to my son. I know this path and it's heartbreaking, but it is the path God has put us on. And, who better to be the mother of 'blind' children then a mother who see's and believes?
Maybe you can join me in praying for my son and I will join you in prayer for your daughter.
Dave in Tenn:
Jos 5:13-15 When Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, "Are you one of us or one of our enemies?"
He answered, "Neither one! I am here as the commander of the LORD'S army."
Immediately, Joshua bowed with his face touching the ground and worshiped. He asked, "Sir, what do you want to tell me?"
The commander of the LORD'S army said to Joshua, "Take off your sandals because this place where you are standing is holy." So Joshua did as he was told.
As best I can, in this politics and media saturated world, with at least some of my prejudices still lingering, I try not to choose sides in other people's debates. Just because there appear to be two sides to an argument does not mean that one of them is right. I do my best not to walk in the middle, but to find a better truth than is presented and not let pundits, bloggers, or CEO's have too much access to my soul.
There is none righteous...no, not one. Not me either. But I don't think we get the 'test' before we've even learned the lesson.
I don't know if this is a 'fallen world'. In many measurable respects, it's been far worse. It's the one we've got. It's not by accident or a failure of God. Faith isn't for everybody.
That maybe didn't help you a bit, but maybe it does.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 27, 2012, 11:58:25 PM ---God created evil. Isa 45:7 He made the mess. He will clean it up.
Do not worry about anything. Philippians 4:6 I don't sweat the big stuff. I don't sweat the little stuff. God controls everything. Such understanding brings Peace.
--- End quote ---
Amen my friend, Amen! God is fully in control, we need to trust Him.
Give to Caesar that which is Caesor's and give to God that which is God's!
No man can belong to two kingdoms, you need to decide, shall you take part in the political affairs of the kingdoms of this world, or take part in the Kingdom of our Lord?
Any kingdom divide amongst itself shall fall.
Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
God bless
Alex
Gina:
Amen to that Alex.
Hey Octoberose, I'm not mad at you at all. I was simply trying to free you and some others up from the burden of having to give the time of day to either of those men, because I see what Mr. Amazon's doing for exactly what it is: an opportunity to get people's attention (ALL EYES ON AMAZON!). People were fine one day before they knew anything of his views, and now all of a sudden those same people's world's are shaken up -- over what? He gets people like you and me all hot under the collar and then when we speak up to him, he and his buddies turn around and call us bigots and homophobes; when the true definition of a homophobe is someone who panders to the G&L community for profits. Not saying that's Mr. Amazon.
Ray quoted Jesus best when he applied this scripture to involvement in the political farce (and I do mean farce!): Let the dead bury the dead. Let dead people take care of dead matters.
Thank you for praying for my daughter. I have also been praying for you and your husband AND your son. She is my youngest of two daughters. She is 21. She's interning in San Francisco and living with her "wife". I didn't raise her; she was adopted (in an open adoption and has known of me since day 1) out of the hospital three days after I delivered her to a wonderful Catholic couple, who I will be forever grateful to because they have always loved her like she is their very own -- and in reality, she is--we're all connected when you stop to think about it.
God bless you, Octoberose. :)
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