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Author Topic: Two Witnesses  (Read 1783 times)

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newgene87

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Two Witnesses
« on: August 09, 2012, 01:42:48 AM »

So I have a feeling this was discussed before but I can't find it. Whats the enigma of the two Witnesses in Revelations 11

Revelation 11:3-5
And I will give unto my two witnesses, that they shall prophesy, a thousand two hundred and sixty days, arrayed in sackcloth. 4 These, are the two olive- trees, and the two lamps, which, before the Lord of the earth, do stand. 5 And, if any one, upon them, chooseth to inflict injury, fire, cometh forth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies; and, if anyone shall choose, upon them, to inflict injury, thus, must he be slain.

It reminds me of the Left Behind movies; they were two men who prophesied and they breathed literal fire (entertaining, but so untrue). But this is something im seeking the truth of. The power they have..."to shut the heavens, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy"... Now I know ALL this is spiritual, but what's the spiritual meaning and match to this. Mama Kat, i will be looking for you to hand me that link I need cause you are glorious for it ;). Regardless, need a little help. Thanks to all

Eugene
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 03:03:35 AM »

From "The Lake of Fire!" Part 1




Is it necessary for me to go through this entire book verse by verse before we can fully realize that this book is written in figurative, symbolic, and metaphorical language?

Let’s look at just a few more:

Chapter 4, Was a literal trumpet "talking" with John?

Chapter 5, Is Jesus Christ literally a "Lion," an "animal?"

Chapter 6, Are these literal "horses?" Do the literal stars of heaven fall on the earth? The smallest known stars are a million times larger than the earth.

Chapter 7, Were angels literally holding back four "winds" on four literal "corners" of the earth? I thought the earth is round without corners? Can one literally wash his clothes "white" in red "blood?"

Chapter 8, Will an angel cast a literal mountain burning with fire into the sea?

Chapter 9, During the fifth trumpet will it literally be impossible for mortal men to die?

Will there be literal locusts shaped like "horses?" Locusts that literally have "hair like a woman, teeth like a lion, and breastplates of iron?" LOCUSTS with breastplates of "iron?"

Chapter 10, Did John eat a literal book? That was literally sweet in his taste buds, but literally bitter in his stomach? Why would anyone "eat" a literal book?

Chapter 11, Are God’s two witnesses that prophesy, literally two olive trees and two candlesticks? But if we study Zechariah 4 we can determine what is meant by "two witnesses."

Chapter 12, Will there literally be a pregnant woman "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars?" Was this same woman able to literally "fly into the wilderness with wings of an eagle?"

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TRUTH NUMBER 6

[A] "…that in the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES every word may be established" (Matt. 18:16).

"…In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (II Cor. 13:1).

[C] "And I will give power unto my TWO WITNESSES…" (Rev. 11:3).

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

newgene87

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 05:29:47 AM »

So wow, Ray definitely nailed that. I felt like I saw that Zecharius 4 before but never looked into it smh. But it left me with another parable ;D. Obviously that is the direct match for the "Two Witnesses" but I'm not seeing the "fire coming out the mouth", and prophesying, and all the power these two witnesses have. What is the link to these meanings? Then the last verse just left with definitely another parable...

Zechariah 4:14
And he saith, These [are] the two SONS OF THE OIL, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth. [Youngs]

Zechariah 4:14
Then said he, These, are the two Anointed Ones,-- who stand near the Lord of all the earth. [Rotherham]

So who are the two anointed ones or sons of the oil???that triggered a major question for me. What and who are those? What is the spiritual interpretation of those verses for these mysterious two witnesses. If God has revealed this to anyone; I would love to know. Thank you Dave for the first step to my understanding
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Ian 155

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 06:01:44 AM »

Not the Old Covenant and New covenant ?
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the truth

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 11:40:42 AM »

Hello,
Rev 5:10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 11:3  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Is this spiritual too?As it seems to be happen in the millum reign.As well as many other things....Eze..chapters 40-49?

ec 14:1  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3  Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4  And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:6  And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7  But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8  And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9  And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:10  All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
Zec 14:11  And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Zec 14:12  And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:13  And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
Zec 14:14  And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
Zec 14:15  And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the a@@, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
Zec 14:16  And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17  And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18  And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19  This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20  In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21  Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 11:44:34 AM by the truth »
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Kat

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 11:48:19 AM »


Hi Eugene,

Quote
So who are the two anointed ones or sons of the oil???

I'll take a stab at this. Okay as we have "anointed ones" in Zec 4, compare to Rev. 11.

Rev 11:3  And I will give power unto My two witnesses 3144, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

G3144 martus - a witness (literally [judicially] or figuratively [generally]); by analogy a “martyr”: - martyr, record, witness.

Martyr - One who, by his death, bears witness to the truth of the gospel.

So these "two witnesses" are those put to death - spiritually.  Also in verse 3 "they shall prophesy," which is speaking under inspiration. It's those who have been put to death while in the flesh and speak under inspiration of the Holy Spirit - the Elect.

Then the next verse referrs to the witnesses as "two olive trees."

Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.

And that takes us back to Zechariah.

Zec 4:11  Then I answered and said to Him, "What are these two olive trees--at the right of the lampstand and at its left?"
v. 12  And I further answered and said to Him, "What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?"
v. 13  Then He answered me and said, "Do you not know what these are?" And I said, "No, my lord."
v. 14  So He said, "These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth."

So these anointed ones, and what does it mean to be anointed?

2Co 1:21  Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Paul speakes to the believers as "anointed" of God. I hope this is helpful. 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 07:22:41 PM by Kat »
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Craig

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 12:28:02 PM »

I think we may never know the answer until it is time to know.  What we can do is guess, which is conjecture at best, nothing wrong with that as long as we treat it as such and not turn it into a truth or idol.

I think Ray was on to something with Zach.  But did not finish his thoughts.

Sorry Kat, no offense but I don't believe it is the "elect". 

Just my opinion, and if it was worth anything I don't think you would even have enough for a cup of coffee.

Craig
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 03:14:05 PM »

        http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

Read and study all of truth #6 from the attached article from Ray.

Unless I cannot read simple English, Ray is saying that the two witnesses are the New Covenant Scriptures and the Old Covenant Scriptures.  And in both of them is the statement that in the mouth of two witnesses every word must be established.

When I read of the two witnesses in Revelation, and understand it refers to the New and Old Covenant Scriptures, then it makes sense to me.  Especially when one knows that Revelation is symbolic and not literal.

Olive trees and olive oil is symbolic of the Spirit of God in the scriptures.

Consuming fire is also symbolic of God and His Spirit, which from the two witnesses of His Word, cleanses everything of sin and error.

 ;D ;D ;D   All of the false teachers of the Babylon churches, deep down, think they are one of the two witnesses.  The only thing that stumps them is that they do not know who the 2nd witness is because they know of no one as righteous as themselves.   ;D ;D ;D
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mharrell08

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Re: Two Witnesses
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 03:25:49 PM »

Ray never elaborated on this subject, though members have speculated in times past.

From my experience on the forum, very rarely do members agree to one another's interpretation of the symbols in Revelation. Most just find Scriptures from the OT with the same wording, post them next to the Revelation text, and imply a 'spiritual match' without the actual meaning of either. That's not sound teaching, just more speculation.

It's also why we don't allow new teaching on the forum. It never seems to edify the members and causes unnecessary strife.
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