> General Discussions
Col-2-13-17
Craig:
Maybe the problem here is with the meaning of the word fulfill.
What religion teaches is totally different from what I believe it means, and what Ray taught.
The problem we have always had on the forum and our understanding is there is so much baggage we have to leave when "we come out of her." Also we are programed that "we" have to do this or "we" have to do that. God's way is easy and the burden is light when we just let Him lead.
Craig
indianabob:
Hi John,
Just sticking my neck out a little here to say what it seems like to this old fellow.
It seems that Jerry is asking if we have considered what life will be like for the flesh and blood humans on the earth AFTER Lord Jesus returns to rule. For example will carnal people around Jerusalem or Judea be taught to observe the holy days as a remembrance of what was and what is yet to come in God's holy plan for mankind?
What also interests me is will those folks have their eyes opened and be taught the mysteries or spiritual secrets that Paul learned directly from Lord Jesus in Arabia and then taught to the gentiles in his ministry?
OR will God's ministry be more similar to what it was like for the Jews for all those centuries past before the Christ revealed God's "mysteries" to Paul.
In plain terms, will everyone know that there is no eternally burning hell and that death is a brief moment of sleep until the resurrection. OR will tribes living away from Judea, where Lord Jesus and the elect are ruling, be allowed to teach error once again until they are given the desire to learn God's ways?
Just wondering, Indianabob
the truth:
Hello Whoever
First,Thank you Craig for your post.Could you please either post or pm this ..Teaching of what fullfill means?If not thats ok.
Eugene:I will send what you asked by the way.I have been very busy today but i will do.
AS far as your thoughts
You stated on your first post......"I will put my 2 cents in. For the most part, this is the Mosaic Law".
RAY said.......God never nailed His "LAW" to the cross....so back to my question ?So this was the "Oral law
You never answered that.
Now,you say this...
ALL THINGS ARE FULFILLED in the LAW AND PROPHETS. So what's the problem?? What's the goal of Zech 14 in that Christ fulfilled. There's no feasts, observance of days, righteousness of the law - its ALL FULFILLED.
Honestly,I could go for several hours with this.
1.With the thought that Christ came and fullfilled the first 4 feast..passover,un-leavned bread,firstfruits,pentacost.
you may be able to see this in Isaiah.And also Luke 4-18-19.
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound
Ok...So you may be able to see what does the Lord do and say in verses 19-20 of Luke ch-4?
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Christ has come and fullfilled the first 4 feast as the SUFFERING MESSIAH.passover,un-leavened,firstfruits,passover.
Now,whats going to happen?
His coming back to fullfill the last 3 feast...feast of trumpets,day of antonment,and low and behold the feast of the tabernacle.
As the reigning Messiah...SEE ISAIAH 61-2-11.
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
Isa 61:9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.
Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Isa 61:11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
So Eugene Can you see were Zechariah chapter 14 might actually mean something?Is this not the millium reighn?
See..Zech-14-16-19...Eugene and share with me what that means?What happens at feasts?Has this already taken place?Has the other many prophcy taken place that have to come to pass?
Dave in Tenn:
Jerry, you've also not answered John's question.
I'm not about to try to teach, and I don't have the ability to peel back all the layers of the understandings and mistunderstandings of all the tribes of christendom. That's Ray's job. I'm just an old physical gentile, but physically circumicised (like most american males) sometime in my infancy (maybe not the eigth day--don't know, don't care...it's too late). The only spiritual benefit I have from being circumcised is that I know for absolute surety that CIRCUMCISION is nothing. I also know for sure that uncircumcision is nothing, though being circumcised it's more a matter of observation and believing the scripture that all have sinned and that there is none righteous, no not one. I believe those scriptures with all my heart. I've lived them, and through them.
Back to Ray.
Oh really? "The LAW was nailed to the cross," was it? And do you have chapter and verse on that bit of unscriptural nonsense Col 2:14 "Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." God never nailed His "LAW" to the cross. The Covenant Law which IS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS was not a "handwriting of ordinances," but was rather chiseled IN STONE, and was placed IN the ark of the Covenant, not on the OUTSIDE of the ark as were the ordinances. You have not a clue as to what you are talking about.
What was nailed to the cross and blotted out is the HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES. For the life of me, I can't see how something that is HANDWRITING can be simply ORAL.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
We have to follow a logic of scripture that does not make it contradict. To follow all those strands requires more than a forum post or thread. Ray's reply quoted here was to a person who did not believe that the Law is Spiritual, not did he understand the New Covenant which is not in accord with the old.
We put new wine in old winsekins and spoil them both. Neither circumsicion nor uncircumcision profits anything.
OK...I've at least attempted to answer your question. Will you do the same for John's?
Dave in Tenn:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9742.0.html Do James and Paul Contradict?
Excerpted:
THE WEAK AND BEGGARLY ELEMENTS
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements…
Is Paul calling; thy shalt not murder, they shalt not steal, thy shalt honor thy father and mother… is he calling those “weak and beggarly elements”? Is that what he is calling weak and beggarly elements? Let’s notice it.
v. 9 …whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? (How so?)
v. 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
There it is, another example of just these physical physical physical rituals, you know that you pay so much attention to. Just like the Pharisees who say, you are suppose to tithe, that’s fine. So we have pepper pods and they will get tweezers and we will count these darn pepper pods to be sure we give God His tenth. But then when it came to justice and mercy and treating the people and the widows and the fatherless and the orphans and the homeless right, they just threw it to the wind. The weightier matters of the law they just threw to the wind.
He’s not talking about the weightier matters here, he talking about the weak and beggarly elements. This observation of days and months and times and years and seasons and all of that.
Okay we never see the word ‘alone.’ Yes we’re justified by faith, but be careful now, nowhere do we find the word ‘alone.’ We only find that with A. E. Knoch and Martin Luther, that is the only place we find that. The rest of protestantism teaches it, they teach it, but they got it from the heretics.
[Comment: In the Concordant, it didn’t quite have that same meaning did it, of ‘alone’?]
Oh absolutely. I’ll read it to you again.
Gal 2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, (CLV)
‘Alone’… only alone, faith alone.
Now I’m going to start bringing this works and faith together here First I want you to understand, good works are never referred to as ‘works of the law.’ See you could assume, that since Paul said “that by the works of the law shall no man be justified.” James said, “a man is justified by his works,” that it’s a contradiction. It’s not a contradiction. James is talking about works (and we are going to see what kind of works). Paul is talking about the works of the law. Now these are two different things. Paul tells us what works of the law are… circumcision, this observing of times and days weeks. And in other places touch not, eat not, all these dietary laws and so on. Paul talks about that through all his writings, works of the law, physical, carnal, beggarly, weak things, you see.
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