Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gina]

Lisa Kristine:  http://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_kristine_glimpses_of_modern_day_slavery.html

For the past two years, photographer Lisa Kristine has traveled the world, documenting the unbearably harsh realities of modern-day slavery. She shares hauntingly beautiful images -- miners in the Congo, brick layers in Nepal -- illuminating the plight of the 27 million souls enslaved worldwide. (Filmed at TEDxMaui)

Kevin Bales:  http://www.ted.com/talks/kevin_bales_how_to_combat_modern_slavery.html

In this moving yet pragmatic talk, Kevin Bales explains the business of modern slavery, a multibillion-dollar economy that underpins some of the worst industries on earth. He shares stats and personal stories from his on-the-ground research -- and names the price of freeing every slave on earth right now.

[eggi]

Thanks for sharing this Gina. It's easy to forget that such things happen in the world. There are even pirates still in action!

God bless you.

[Gina]

It's frightening to know that some humans beings "live" like that.

I won't forget that little 8-year-old boy in that canoe who couldn't swim and was scared of the journalist's boat -- his eyes.  All their eyes -- the pain in them.     And they don't know any different since they have nothing to compare it to.  I imagine the looks on their faces and joy their hearts when God wipes away their tears. 

I'm so thankful that at least I can offer some support help to free them.  I thank God for the organizations working to free them. 

[lilitalienboi16]

I didn't watch the entire video and to be honest it was because I couldn't get past the way the author was telling this story. One thing that struck me right away was how the author tries, at least what seemed to me in her manner of speech, to put the blame on western society for not doing something about this. That it is our fault somehow. That we should be ashamed for being unaware of these things.

I really dislike that type of attitude when it comes to other people's problems. We don't chose where we are born so why should we be ashamed and feel guilty for being born in a half civilized society?

The attitude has got to change, hating and blaming ourselves for the problems of the world and other people's is not going to lead to a solution but rather an erosion of confidence in our way of life and down a path that may very well lead us to destruction.

[Gina]

If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.  (Proverbs 18:13)

Alex, It's a little too hardcore a subject for some people's emotional makeups, especially for an aspiring doctor like yourself.   Perhaps you'd be more apt to watch the testimony of Shelley Lubben (a former porn actress) in its entirety?  http://youtu.be/q9oaUzEU_fM   (She has an awesome testimony.  She has dedicated her life to helping women and men escape the porn industry.) 

If not, here is a link to something that Ray sent to me privately about a year ago:   http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14197.0.html

[indianabob]

Hi folks,

You know the cost to fix this, if it could be done by humans, was determined in America about 150 years ago. We had an in country civil war that cost us 650,000 lives when our national population was about 30,000,000. That was with swords and muskets! Today with modern weaponry and with a population of 330,000,000 U. S. Citizens you can imagine how many soldiers lives would be lost if we invaded all nations that allow slavery and tried to put a stop to it and then maintained an occupying army with additional losses for decades to follow.

For an example, consider what is happening in Afghanistan today and for centuries past to all of their people. The take a look at India or China or even in our back yard, within our borders in Los Angeles or New York City.
I do empathize with the woman who made the video and I pray for a strong hand from somewhere to come and make it all better. Until that happens NOTHING is going to be done as long as there is a market for the products the slaves produce including drugs and the prostitution of children.
I'm pretty sure that this is worse than it was in the days of NOAH.

Indianabob

[Gina]

Actually, if you had watched the video, Bob, you'd see it would cost as little as 10.8 Billion U.S. dollars to not only set free but to educate and slave-proof everyone currently enslaved in the entire world.  This is not a call for donations from anyone.  No one is calling on anyone to invade other countries.  No one even has to get politically active.  Please don't say things that simply are not true. 

Thank you for your prayers though.

[lilitalienboi16]

If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.  (Proverbs 18:13)

Alex, It's a little too hardcore a subject for some people's emotional makeups, especially for an aspiring doctor like yourself.   Perhaps you'd be more apt to watch the testimony of Shelley Lubben (a former porn actress) in its entirety?  http://youtu.be/q9oaUzEU_fM   (She has an awesome testimony.  She has dedicated her life to helping women and men escape the porn industry.) 

If not, here is a link to something that Ray sent to me privately about a year ago:   http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14197.0.html

Hi Gina, I don't know how to take your piece of scripture because I don't judge a matter until I hear the whole but I don't need to watch a 20 minute video about images of "slavery" to understand the way this author was attempting to portray the situation and the way in general, people of this sort, attempt to guilt others to action by attempting to make them feel shameful.
 
It is much like using fear through the idea of hell to bring people to Christ.

There are ways of doing things and making people feel guilty and sorrowful for things they have zero control over and then trying to move them to action to solve a problem through that guilt is a sure way down the path of self deception, frustration, disapointment and ultimately one's own destruction.

I see this tactic used in other places as well and it is wrong.

It is also forgetting for those who have been blessed to know, that only our Lord can fix such things and only our Lord can bring things like slavery to pass in the first place.

Don't forget that Gina.

Fix yourself before you can fix the world. This world is full of hypocrites, look inward and not outward. Change the world through your personal conduct and not through shame of where God birthed you into this world, not of guilt for what the Lord has blessed you with. You want to help these people? Pray for them.

Furthermore, this issue is not so sensitive to me that it would drive me to look the other way, I simply am very careful about what I take in from someone who gives me a vibe of being a charlatan.

Helping people escape the porn industry is entirely a different matter. I'm merely commenting on the vibe and the way this person advocating action against slavery presents herself and the information and also the way she attempts to move people to action. Like I said, hating and blaming ourselves for the problems we have ZERO control over or that we had ZERO work in it's coming about is NOT going to lead to a solution but rather an erosion of confidence in our way of life and down a path that may very well lead us to destruction.

God bless,

Alex

P.S. Your links to what ray sent you are dead in that thread. I cannot see any images, though I tried.

[Gina]

Alex,

You're saying things that simply are not true.  No one was using fear or trying to make anyone feel guilty.

And if you try again maybe in a day or two, that link for the Ray email will be working.  Photobucket's just doing some maintenance. 

Thank you for your response though. 

[lilitalienboi16]

Alex,

You're saying things that simply are not true.  No one was using fear or trying to make anyone feel guilty.

And if you try again maybe in a day or two, that link for the Ray email will be working.  Photobucket's just doing some maintenance. 

Thank you for your response though. 

We obviously get two different vibes from this author and that is fine. To each his own.

You're welcome

Edit: Btw, I never said the video uses fear, I said it is LIKE using fear to bring people to Christ. It's an analogy to what this woman is attempting to do in her video.

[Gina]

Thank you for your prayers.

I hope you'll come back and re-check that link to the Ray email in a day or two. 

Thank you again.

[indianabob]

Actually, if you had watched the video, Bob, you'd see it would cost as little as 10.8 Billion U.S. dollars to not only set free but to educate and slave-proof everyone currently enslaved in the entire world.  This is not a call for donations from anyone.  No one is calling on anyone to invade other countries.  No one even has to get politically active.  Please don't say things that simply are not true. 

Thank you for your prayers though.

Hello dear one,
Well I did watch both videos and am of the same opinion still.

There is a need to attack the problem and I am for a continuing effort. We are measured more by our sincere effort than we are by our lack of full success, so yes let's do all we can. 

This task is not going to be accomplished as long as there is any profit in it for the slavers, without the use of police force or military force. The police in most of these nations are as corrupt as the slavers and will follow the money. Military force will never come from the local politicians, so the only feasible option is a United Nations force sent to compel compliance and to remain to enforce the rule of law for as long as it has taken to do that in Afghanistan. NOT!
And if the military force is subsequently relaxed it will just begin all over again. Are the women in Afghanistan free? Are the young girls in Afghanistan free to seek an education? Not generally and not for long after WE leave.

Yes sure we can close a polluting mine shaft or pay to bring in machinery to harvest the minerals instead of using human labor and that will solve one problem. AND I would be willing to contribute to that effort, but it won't change people or the conditions they are forced to live under. That is going to take a miracle.

It is happening right here in America and we already have control in all areas where we have the will to use it.
This nation has some 2,300,000 people in prison and crime is growing or remaining level. What are we doing about that? Most of the people sentenced to prison were slaves to their environment and were led to lives of crime by their situation. Most of the illegal immigrants are here because slavery is so bad in Mexico that they had to leave. There is not much real difference between being in chains or being in a mine shaft and the conditions in Mexico where the people are free to venture out on the street and be killed by gangs that are allowed to roam free to supply drugs to American citizens on the other side of the border.

WASHINGTON - November 15 - Three decades of harsh criminal justice policies have created a large population of ex-offenders that struggle in the labor market long after they have paid their debts to society, according to a new report from the Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR). Because prison records and felony convictions greatly lower ex-offenders' chances of finding work, the United States loses between $57 billion and $65 billion a year in lost output.

"It isn't just that we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, we have created a situation over the last 30 years where about one in eight men is an ex-offender," said John Schmitt, a Senior Economist at CEPR and a co-author of the report.

The new report, "Ex-offenders and the Labor Market," found that in 2008 there were between 5.4 million and 6.1 million ex-prisoners and between 12.3 million and 13.9 million ex-felons in the United States. Over 90 percent were men.

[Gina]

Bob,

Imagine if we as slaves of Christendom, were still there all because Ray, when approached by Dennis to publish his letter to Hagee,etc., had said, Too high a price for me -- besides, if I can't bring everyone out of the churches then why bother trying to bring anyone out? However, I will pray for those poor lost souls.

God is not trying to save everyone in this lifetime. 

If you do not feel led to help free slaves, that is between you and God.  I am not here to judge you or anyone.  I simply posted that video because *I* feel it is important.  I'm positive others do too. 

[indianabob]

Hi my friend Gina,

I'm not saying that we should not be interested in the terrible plight of these folks, we should!

What I'm saying is that we should not expect our government to become involved in a situation such as this without counting the cost. We should not take political stands on the forum and that is not my intention. I'm just explaining what I believe are obvious conditions in the world of evil men. I'm trying to convince those who may be interested that these things are not fixed by sincere people taking an interest and even getting the government to invest 10 billion dollars of effort to bring it to a halt.

I'm saying they will not be able to do it in a general or comprehensive way, they do not have the power or the will to pay the political price, none of them do. In fact it can be shown that the officials of many nations that we give favored nation status are complicit in these offenses.

I tried to point out that we wanted to stop slavery in our nation in the late 1700's and finally got started on the task in 1860 at great personal cost to our people and still we have racial hatred and prejudice and child porn and women being abused and used by men and officials and congressmen and businessmen within this Christian nation (Babylon) So my point is that the wonderful people on the two videos as well intentioned as they may be are doomed to have very limited success.
Apart from God's spirit humans do not change. People are basically evil and given opportunity most would do likewise. As the video illustrated it is already illegal and the slavers ignore the law.

Never-the-less they/we should try. They should do the best that they can. But in my view it is wrong to say that if we just invest good effort and several billions of dollars, that we can permanently free and release from poverty and re-educate sufficiently to maintain their freedom all those millions who are presently in slavery. It is very good that we try our best. It is naive to believe that we will succeed until our Lord Jesus returns to take control.

I'm for doing our best as long as we draw breath and I applaud you for caring and for sharing in this human need.

[ez2u]

I agree with you Bob  and we need to kept learning with little distractions

[Gina]

And you've managed to take what was me applauding the two people in the video who are sticking their necks out for people they don't know and turn this into a political thing.  You're funny:

I tried to point out that we wanted to stop slavery in our nation in the late 1700's and finally got started on the task in 1860 at great personal cost to our people and still we have racial hatred and prejudice and child porn and women being abused and used by men and officials and congressmen and businessmen within this Christian nation (Babylon) So my point is that the wonderful people on the two videos as well intentioned as they may be are doomed to have very limited success.

That may be true, but we don't want to start making predictions, or decide the matter now, do we?

Apart from God's spirit humans do not change. People are basically evil and given opportunity most would do likewise. As the video illustrated it is already illegal and the slavers ignore the law.

Never-the-less they/we should try. They should do the best that they can. But in my view it is wrong to say that if we just invest good effort and several billions of dollars, that we can permanently free and release from poverty and re-educate sufficiently to maintain their freedom all those millions who are presently in slavery. It is very good that we try our best. It is naive to believe that we will succeed until our Lord Jesus returns to take control.

I'm for doing our best as long as we draw breath and I applaud you for caring and for sharing in this human need.

I see what you're saying now.  I'm sorry, Bob, I did not mean to give off the impression that we could eradicate sin worldwide.  I certainly don't condone or suggest using violence or weapons and wouldn't back anyone who does.  (Although, in a sense we all do because where else are our taxes going, right?)  But I don't get the impression these two in the video are resorting to violence or calling on the government of the U.S. to get involved. 

I guess I was thinking more along these lines when I came on those videos:

Love

The good Samaritan did not expect anything in return, for helping that man, who was dying on the side of the road, it’s a one-way love.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.msg27959.html#msg27959

It is a love that has the welfare of all others at heart, regardless of how evil they are or how badly they may treat us. It is the kind of love that the good Samaritan showed for the man who was wounded by the side of the road, when he was befalled by robbers. They beat the living daylights out of him. You know the Levite came by, the Priest came by and they said, 'that’s to bad, look at that, he’s bleeding to death' and went on their way. 

Then a Samaritan came by. He used a Samaritan because they despised the Samaritans. The Samaritans were of the northern tribe of Israelites. So the good Samaritan came by and he tended to him. He bound up his wounds; carried him to the village; put him under the hospices of somebody there. He had someone take care of him, nurse him back to health and here is money and 'I’ll be back in a week or two and I’ll stop by to see if you need more money and I’ll give you more money.'

Now that is agapao love. That’s not phileo love, that’s not brotherly love, that’s agapao love.
 
Did he expect to get anything back from that person?  No.
Did he know him?  No.
Did he like him?  No.
Did the man even thank him?  It doesn’t say.

Does anybody think, they became good friends later in life? I don’t think so, I really don’t think so. This man was just passing through. Maybe he was on business, just passing through, I don’t think they became friends. He helped just for the shear reason, that this is a fellow human being and needed help. He provided not only help, but a lot of help, good quality help, and that’s agapao, that’s not phileo.

Now here’s one thing that interested me with all this said. God is agape, He loves agapao with the agape love, you got the noun and the verb. But does God phileo love or is God in this ivory tower, where He just has this great spiritual love and He doesn’t get down on our level? 

Foundational Truths

The many and the few, they are through every parable. The wise and the foolish virgins, we’ve talk about that. The growing seed, the absent house holder, the creditor and the two debtors, the good Samaritan. You have those that will come to the rescue, to help somebody. I mean you had the many that went by and the one, the good Samaritan, he’s the one that stopped, he’s the Elect. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.msg51862.html#msg51862

~L. Ray Smith

[Gina]

~The End~

[mharrell08]

Let's all move on, no more back & forth please.