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Author Topic: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??  (Read 10815 times)

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2012, 12:40:06 PM »


Hi Paul,

Quote
They had a (one) commandment from God that they broke by eating the forbidden fruit and that was their first sin.

So that sounds like you are saying that unless someone understands/hears the 'law' then they are innocent and there is no sin? We are all born as carnal flesh (accept Jesus Christ) which is "enmity against God," maybe Adam and Eve were not born, but they were certainly carnal flesh from the day of their creation.

Rom 8:7  because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.

I think there have been plenty of people who have lived that have never heard the law and I do not believe they will be found guiltless.

Luke 12:47  And that servant who knew his lord's will and did not prepare, nor did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
v. 48  But he not knowing, and doing things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

You put Rom. 5:13 to back up the idea that there was no sin before Adam 'ate the fruit,' but that very verse says "for sin indeed was in the world before the law."

Rom 5:13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
v. 14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the One who was to come.

Adam was a "type" of Christ, the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the church.

Eph 5:23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
 
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

So that in this one particular sin of this particular man, Adam, which God did command he should not comment, was to represent sin of "all," just as Christ was the One and only by which the same "all" sinners can be saved from death.

Rom 5:16  And there is a difference between God's gift and the sin of one man. After the one sin, came the judgment of "Guilty"; but after so many sins, comes the undeserved gift of "Not guilty!"
v. 17  It is true that through the sin of one man death began to rule because of that one man. But how much greater is the result of what was done by the one man, Jesus Christ! All who receive God's abundant grace and are freely put right with him will rule in life through Christ.
v. 18  So then, as the one sin condemned all people, in the same way the one righteous act sets all people free and gives them life. (GNB)

This parable of Adam and Eve is so full of symbolism, there is so much in there that speaks to the plan that God has set for all mankind.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 03:18:25 PM by Kat »
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paulfisher

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2012, 05:45:36 AM »


Hi Paul,

Quote
They had a (one) commandment from God that they broke by eating the forbidden fruit and that was their first sin.

So that sounds like you are saying that unless someone understands/hears the 'law' then they are innocent and there is no sin?

No, I am only saying what I said. No where do I say in my posts above that Adam and Eve were "innocent and there was/is no sin" before they ate the forbidden fruit. In fact, I remind all in my post that "Ray is correct - sin WAS in the Garden PRIOR to the eating of the forbidden fruit". It was just NOT imputed to Adam and Eve. I also mention Eve's lusts, which when conceived brought forth sin, to be imputed, because of the one law broken.

Quote
I think there have been plenty of people who have lived that have never heard the law and I do not believe they will be found guiltless.


According to the Scriptures that I mention in my post, IF someone never 'hears' the law in their mortal life, for example - a baby dying shortly after birth - the 'vanity' that child was 'created in' will not be considered sin that will be imputed on the individual, although he or she will still need purging, purifying and refining of that vanity in the second resurrection (a "few stripes" ONLY, otherwise how would he or she ever come to a knowledge of good and evil required to become "as one of Us"?).

Quote
You put Rom. 5:13 to back up the idea that there was no sin before Adam 'ate the fruit,' but that very verse says "for sin indeed was in the world before the law."

No I don't. WHY would I use a verse of Scripture that says that sin WAS in the world prior to the law, to "back up the idea that there was no sin before Adam 'ate the fruit'"? I use it to 'back up' the truth that the eating of the forbidden fruit was Adam and Eve's FIRST SIN IMPUTED TO THEM.

Quote
Rom 5:13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

I actually quote this entire verse in my post while referring to Ray's writings from an earlier post in this thread.

Paul
:)

« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 06:26:30 AM by paulfisher »
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paulfisher

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2012, 06:25:14 AM »


Hi Paul,

This parable of Adam and Eve...

I'm just curious, did Ray say that this story of Adam and Eve was a parable, or do the Scriptures say this? I'd be ok with that, I just don't recall hearing or reading that.

Thanks,
Paul
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2012, 11:10:54 AM »


Hi Paul,

Okay, I see what you are saying. Here are a couple of places Ray mentions the whole Bible is a parable.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2891.0.html ---------

Hi ray,

Thanks for the encouragement.. can you tell me what you mean when you say all of the scriptures are a parable?

Thanks,
Dave

Dear Dave:

Well, not really, not in less than a hour or so, but I'll give you a hint. God is the Creator. He made everything. He made everthing for a purpose. There is one grand goal that God has for the entire human race. The Christian Church has not a CLUE as to what that goal is or how it will be accomplish. The whole plan and purpose is outlined in the Scriptures. But just as NONE of the people who heard Jesus teach in parables, understood His parables, so the Whole Bible is one GIANT parable which the Church does not understand. In a nutshell:  God is creating the human race into HIS VERY OWN SPIRITUAL IMAGE.  Oh, I thought that already was accomplished back in the Garden, wasn't it?  I told you it's all one GIANT PARABLE!

God be with you,
Ray

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html ---------------------

THE BIBLE IS A GIANT PARABLE

Not only is the Bible a giant parable, but, all creation is a giant parable. Is it not real? Oh, it is real all right. But what we see, hear, and feel, in this physical universe, is not the lasting spiritual reality of Godís purpose for creation. In parables, the literalness of the words is but a symbol that stands for something spiritual and grand. The physical words of all parables will pass away, however, the spiritual fulfillment of those physical words will never pass away. This is another marvelous spiritual principal of understanding and wisdom. I have covered this before, but it certain warrants repeating. Paul presents us with this grand parable of creation, life, and the final destiny of the entire universe:

"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in INCORRUPTION.

It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in GLORY: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a NATURAL BODY, and there is a SPIRITUAL BODY.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Christ] was made A QUICKENING [vivifying, living, immortal] SPIRIT

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterwards that which is SPIRITUAL.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from HEAVEN [the realm of spirit].

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are HEAVENLY.

And as we [all humanity born of physical Adam] have born the image of the earthy, we [all humanity born of spiritual Jesus, the Christ] shall also bear the image of the HEAVENLY [Christ]" (I Cor. 15:41-49).

Can we even begin to comprehend what we have just read? But we are not there as yet. The physical part of this parable is still being played out on this physical stage of the universe. The final curtain of this heavenly play will not come down until all of the Acts have first been performed. And the drama is building as we near the climax.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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onelovedread

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2012, 01:19:00 PM »

Wow Eugene
Bet you never thought so much would have come out of your question. What a thread!
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paulfisher

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2012, 03:41:56 AM »


Hi Paul,

Okay, I see what you are saying. Here are a couple of places Ray mentions the whole Bible is a parable.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2891.0.html ---------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Thank you so much Kat! Now I understand the parable thing!

Paul 8)
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santgem

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2012, 03:55:03 AM »


PARABLE.........Never ending story...............Until,
    God will be All in All!
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2012, 06:59:19 AM »



Good AND Evil are the SAME Fruit... to embrace this, is to become as children.

The process of, don't touch that flame, don't touch that pretty glowing oven...it will hurt. It looks pretty and it appears interesting but don't go near it and don't touch it because it is hot and it will burn. So we go near and we get burned. That is how to receive wisdom.

The Spirit of God can show us that all we think we know, and whatever knowledge we think we possess, is foolishness. In the Presence of the Spirit of God, no proof of that is necessary. lol

 " Be still and Know that I am God"  ~  :)

We don't have to prove we are children if we are. And naughty kids, can't keep still! It takes the Spirit of God....to give that gift!
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paulfisher

  • Guest
Re: Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2012, 01:17:24 AM »

I just found this from Ray in answer to one of his emails:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7233.0/prev_next,next.html#new

"The first commandments of God to the man and the woman were:

   Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them,  [1] Be fruitful, and [2] multiply, and [3] replenish the earth, and [4] subdue it: and [5] have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    There are five commandments alone that came before not eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Now then, one of the categories of animals that "move upon the earth" is "serpents."  They were specifically COMMANDED to "have DOMINION OVER....serpents..."  Eve allowed the serpent to have dominion over HER.   She BROKE the commandment of God and SINNED.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    Eve was FULLY aware of the fact that she knew full well that it was WRONG to eat of this forbidden fruit. She even stated as much."


So, There were at least 6 laws or commandments in the Garden and NOT "one" as I stated in my prior posts. (My bad.)

Also, the sin of allowing the serpent to have dominion over her would be imputed to her (because of her lusts. Obviously, if you allow a Grizzly to have dominion over you, there's no sin :).) I don't want to suffer from paralysis-of-analysis as Ray says, so I'll stop here. :)

Paul


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