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physical universe
darren:
God created the universe and all that's in it. I know this will not be popular but I strongly feel that The Creator of the universe that we know consist of billions of galaxies with billions of stars and planets would just create life forms on one puny planet called earth. I believe God has been around for ever. Alpha & omega.Therefore I believe He has many different life forms on many of the billions of planets in the billions of galaxies across the universe. Now as far as traveling across the universe. No not if we think as humankind in the 21st century. Using 21st century tech. Never happen. How much do humans really know. I how much we think we know. I believe theres so much more that we have not a clue. I believe we have a small taste of what God is and all that He encompass. I could go deeper but why? I probable said too much.
Darren
Ps. Kat you say we were not designed for space travel. I agree. The way God made us physcially. But If God is in control of all and has foreknowladge Then He knew from the time Adam was created that man would traval into the heavens. AS many BTers say God has us just where we should be. Sorry just my thoughts no offense.
Akira329:
Hi Greg,
I like these questions!
As of today, evidence does not exist that any forms of life exists outside our planet.
The possibility for life however does exist I believe!
There are very tiny creatures living on earth now that are capable of living in the vacuum of space called "water bears"
They are as of now the only creature capable of living in such harsh environments.
The elements that we are made of are very common to the entire universe. We are made of seven of the top 10 most common elements of the universe. By the way, there is no significance to the number seven here. We are made of lots elements in varying degrees of abundance.
So another question you can ask Greg is whether life is equivalent, not as intelligent or greater in intelligence? With, I guess we would be the baseline for that intelligence.
Also, since it took billions of years to come to what we have today, what makes us think that life anywhere else is as developed as here on this planet?
There are many arguments for and against life elsewhere but I tend to lean towards life. In what form is the question? I personally don't believe we are being visited by intelligent life either.
Also Darren makes a good point.
I don't quite understand statements like, "We are not created for space travel" What does that mean? That I can't fly around in space like Superman? I agree if that’s the point of making a statement like that!LOL But we are out there now! Mind you in vehicles designed for space travel.
We are not thwarting God's will when we "seemingly" defy the laws he has put in place. Those same laws make it possible!
Greg,
Questions like these are beyond the scope of this forum but they definitely help us grow in the knowledge of this universe and possibly the purpose for a vast and ever expanding universe. I do believe God is preparing something for us. What that is I'm not too sure. Science is something I realize we can’t ignore anymore such as I did when I was in the worldly church.
As Ray has show more than a few times, science can reveal God to us in ways the words in scripture convey only when understood through that lens.
Greg I hope I help or given you a reason to do some research on questions like these.
Antaiwan
Kat:
Hi Antaiwan,
--- Quote ---I don't quite understand statements like, "We are not created for space travel" What does that mean?
--- End quote ---
I made a comment like that and I don't mind explaining what I meant by saying that. Well at least just put my perspective up anyway.
Well we have managed to bump around in our on solar system a bit. But we have not even begun to explore our on Milky Way galaxy, other than by telescope, sophisticated ones for sure. But there is just too much unknown and it's too difficult and costly to consider maned space travel, even in our solar system much less the Milky Way galaxy or beyond is incomprehensible.
The universe is vast beyond measure. Astronomical distances are measured in light-year, approximately 300,000 kilometers per second or 186,000 miles per second. The nearest known star to the Sun is Proxima Centauri, which is 4.23 light-years away. The fastest outward-bound spacecraft yet sent, Voyager 1, has covered 1/600th of a light-year in 30 years and is currently moving at 1/18,000th the speed of light. At this rate, a journey to Proxima Centauri would take 72,000 years. (Wikipedia)
Hey but that's the way it is now, maybe in the future man will put aside their differences and work together to develop major new advances in technology so we can strike out across the universe. Don't hold your breath :D
But what good would it do to have space travel in God's plan of salvation. Seriously, that's the way I look at it. If it's some other life form other than a man, what's the point, we are designed in the image of God, a man, "God created man in His image;" (Gen 1:27). So what would other life forms out there some where provide for us, we are still discovery new species here on earth.
If it turns out that there are other civilizations out there across the universe some where. Well I guess we will meet together at the resurrection, as that's the only way possible I can see for us to be brought together. I hope it does not sound like I'm arguing, I didn't mean to, I do get a little intense sometimes. But just thought I'd give another view point for what it's worth :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Akira329:
Hi Kathy,
I like that perspective you provided about the distance issues.
Ray has spoken on that a couple times I believe.
Yeah, it just too darn far! But that has nothing to do with life not being possible. That idea just shoots down alien visitation theories.
It's too far for them to travel! What a waste of fuel and other resources to mutalate cows, draw circles in the grass and taking a couple country folk minding their own business!!LOL Not too intelligent by my judgement!
But travel time aside, is it possible that life is out there?
I believe it's possible because of what everything is made of.
The big bang spewed out everything necessary for us to be here. I find it arrogant to believe that this planet is the only one to support life of any kind or will be the only planet to support life of any kind. This theory assumes that earth isn't taken out by a huge asteroid or survives the supernova of our sun. I think about this sometimes...don't you?
Our sun is going to die one day (billions of years later). This brings up a lot of questions in my mind.
How do these things mesh up with the plan of salvation?
If the earth is destroyed, is God's plan ruined??
Will no one be on the earth in billions of years?
See where I'm going? I think you do Kathy, your mind churns too!LOL
So...I think about how this will work and still wondering......
So.... as for the kind of life
Kathy, I think your assuming life equivelent to human beings? As man will be in the image of God not other creatures, right?
Why do we need to be brought together with them IF they are human? Plenty people here on this planet die without knowing their neghbors.
So... on what other life forms provide for us...
Well.....
What do other life forms here provide for us?
What do all the things in the entire universe provide for us? Just a map?
It wasn't just your statement, its been all over the forum. People making claims about what's important and what isn't.
My concern with statements like that is, "How do we know what's necessary and what isn't?"
The wisdom in what God accomplishes may include things we "think" are not necessary for the plan of salvation to be accomplished.
The problem is we are not wise enough to know what those things are. Who is? Let them speak now!LOL
Statements like that go all the way back to good and evil in the same fruit in one tree! Evil is as necessary as is good.
But we keep trying to separate them. "Well, if I eat this side of the fruit it will be okay."
Nope, its all in there and we have to make sense of it all.
How can we separate what isn't needed vs. what is needed?
Hope you get my point.
Kathy Hope you don't take any of this the wrong way.
Hope this doen't take your thread of topic Greg!
I'm definitely not trying to prove life elsewhere exist but I do believe the proof for the possibilty exists.
It is a big universe and its getting bigger!
Antaiwan
Kat:
Hi Antaiwan,
I'll admit I enjoy this kind of conversation very much. Having someone of like mind to bounce these ideas off of is very productive I believe.
--- Quote ---But travel time aside, is it possible that life is out there?
I believe it's possible because of what everything is made of.
The big bang spewed out everything necessary for us to be here. I find it arrogant to believe that this planet is the only one to support life of any kind or will be the only planet to support life of any kind.
--- End quote ---
Okay, I would think this is going on the idea of evolution? God started it all, but it's now just building itself or something like that. It's the line of thinking that the chemical mix that came together on earth to bring about what we have here, should have certainly occurred somewhere else in the vastness of the universe, right? I don't see it that way. It is my understanding that God intervened here on earth to bring about the plants and creatures that we have here. Therefore this that we have here is a totally unique creation in the whole of the universe.
I can see how the earth was brought about in the natural formation of planets (but even that was preordained by God) that occurred throughout the universe with all the planets out there. But the seeds of plants that started the vegetation to growing on earth, where did they come from? Evolution. I don't think so.
Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Where did these seeds that brought forth plants come from, the earth brought them forth, but did it make them? I don't think so. Where did the animals and creatures in the water and air come from, evolution? No.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind...
Gen 2:19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air
God was the direct cause, He literally "made/formed" them and brought them about, that's why we have life on this planet and that's why I don't believe there is other life out there. I just don't see any mention in the Scripture of other life out in the universe. Because God is not just playing around with life here, so He might have made a few other planets with life just to see it how it works, no, He already knows how it will work. He know "the end from the beginning," so He already knows what will happen.
I believe that everything that is created here on earth throughtout it's history was ultimately for the plan of salvation. So what was the point of the dinosaurs then... doesn't mankind study and even use fossil fuel now? This is all a very intricate and complicated creation, God's creative genius is far above what humans can figure out with all the connections and interactive roles things play with each other. That's good, God gave us marvelous and curious minds that wants to explore and investigate and learn, well we will never come to a point where we know all there is to know about this incredible creation.
--- Quote ---Our sun is going to die one day (billions of years later). This brings up a lot of questions in my mind.
How do these things mesh up with the plan of salvation?
If the earth is destroyed, is God's plan ruined??
Will no one be on the earth in billions of years?
--- End quote ---
I do not believe the human race was intended to have a permanent physical existence. We are all ultimately to be born into the God family with spiritual bodies, Like Christ has. This is a temporary experience of good and evil in which to shape and mold a character in us. We all need knowledge to start with, all the evil and good we experience forms a backdrop, so God has something to work with to shape and mold. Yes He will evenually destroy all the evil/carnality in us as He shapes/molds us into His image, but He will not destroy the unique personality that we all have developed that makes us individuals.
This process of the creation and life here on earth is so carefully planned and being worked out. But Christ will return and begin the process of redeeming the whole human race, that could be some time off yet, but I do not believe it is billions of years away. When/if the earth is destroyed at some distance time, it will have been ordained to happen and will not interfere or be contrary to God's plan.
So there is more of my thought and again, for what it's worth, just a little exchange of ideas :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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