> General Discussions
The Pluralty of Elohim?
ICXCNIKA:
First off, Hi everybody :)
Here is a topic I've been studying and I hope you all don't mind if I share the burden/spoils of my quest.
I'm wondering if any one here on the forum has investigated the plurality of Elohim in this manner, or know where Ray has covered this specific definition?
Here is a thought provoking take on the plurality of Elohim:
"We read in Genesis that Bible begins by declaring that God is the Creator of all that exists. The name of God in Genesis 1.1 is used Elohim that is plural in form but not in number. The plural is used for honor or intensity, sometimes known as the plural of majesty."
I knew that Elohim was plural but, the possibility of it's plurality being for Majesty and used to compound honor upon God definitely fits with how I understand the Godhead; and how that Elohim should NOT be used to explain a trinity or some such nonsense.
I appreciate you taking the time to read my post, and hope it allows for some edifying discussion for all of us.
Kat:
Hi Metamatic,
This is taken from the 'Is Jesus God' Bible study 3-2011. the next one is from 'Who and What Is Jesus? & Who Is His Father?' Nashville Conf '07. Hope it helps.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=12896.0 --------------------------
I think we should do away or should have done away… well it’s pretty hard to do it now... but we should have never got in the habit of translating in English Yahweh and Elohim and Adonia, we should have never translated it God. God is a pagan heathen title. Why should we call the God of creation after some pagan title? Why should we? After all we know He’s not a pagan god, yet we’re strapped with the idea that the word Elohim is translated the true God and the god of the pagans. God of creation that was Elohim and Mohoc of the Canaanites that was elohim too.
I would have made a distinction. I would have translated it something like this, since we know what God is from other Scriptures and so on. I would have translated it something like this, in the beginning the Almighty Family created the heavens and the earth. What’s wrong with that? To me that’s what God is. Takes care of the ‘one,’ family, takes care of the plural, family has more than one unit.
Or we could say, the Almighty Divine Family, saying let Us make man in Our image. You could throw the word divine or divinity in there, that okay that’s a good word. It takes care of the plurality of the word Elohim. We could call Him the Almighty Divine Family. What’s wrong with that?
To me the pagan title god or in Germany gott, it doesn’t do justice to the God of creation.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html ---------------------
The Bible starts “In the beginning…” In Gen. 1:1, Right? No, wrong pale face. It just says “In beginning…” or if anything “In a beginning…” In a beginning God--Elohim. That Elohim is plural of Elyon or El, which is the singular for God. So Elohim is plural, it’s more than one. But there is only one God. There is only one Elohim and Elohim is plural? Alright we are going to be talking about this.
“… Created the heavens and the earth,” Now we know that this word Elohim is plural, not only from the entomology of the word and how it’s used in other religions anciently and so on But we know when it says for example, verse 27, “God created man in His image” and God said in verse 26, “let US create in OUR image,” They did create, that word Us and Our, because the word Elohim is plural, it’s in the Hebrew. The Us and Our is in the Hebrew, it’s there. So it must mean Us rather than Me. It’s in the Hebrew, it’s there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
ICXCNIKA:
Great insight Kat, and Thank you for the added references. I agree with you on your wonderfully worded "Almighty Divine Family".
However, it is intriguing to note that the Hebrew language does use (at times) what's called “plural intensive” i.e., where the plural is used in a singular context to denote the superlative degree or superiority. I wonder if that could explain the usage of words like "our" and "us" in the context of Genesis, etc? Truly, Paul was accurate when he wrote: "Unto a personal knowledge of the sacred secret of God, — ||Christ||: In whom are all' the treasures of wisdom and knowledge hidden away". I was blown away by Ray's words when he touched upon this mystery with:
I Believe that the Holy Scriptures are God's Authorized Biography,
and I Believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's Authorized Autobiography
WOW!...Amazing! It gives me chills every time I consider those 22 simple yet profound words, and how they are able to completely express what I knew to be true, but was unable to articulate.
Extol:
I don't have anything to add to what Kat contributed, but just wanted to share this funny bit from my favorite Ray study (Foundational Truths Feb. 2008):
You say, ’what about the Trinity?’
Thy Word is Truth, is there a Scripture that says that God is made up of three people? No. Then you don’t have a Scripture for that.
‘No, but it says back in Hebrew Elohim, and that’s in the plural, so that’s the trinity.’
Excuse me, if something is in the plural does that mean three? If I say I have eggs in the refrigerator, do you automatically think I have three? If I say I have dollars in my pocket, is it three? I could have two, or ten thousand!
I get emails that say, ‘Ray it’s in the plural! can’t you see it? God is in the plural, that’s the trinity!!’
I say I don’t see three in there any where. Look it up in the Hebrew, look it up in the dictionary. Elohim does not mean three persons!
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.0.html
levycarneiro:
Found something about the Hebrew "dual" symbol.
From Nashville 2008 Conference (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9502.0.html)
Let me give you an example of something here. This man said, “if the heavens are indeed the Elect.” Is that even in the realm of possibility, that the heavens means the multiple heavens or the spiritual realm of God’s Elect, where God’s Spirit lives in their heaven or whatever. Is that even possibility? No it’s not, it’s not possible, here’s why. Remember I read this where he said, “in the Hebrew ‘heavens’ is always in the plural.” That’s true, BUT… there’s a big but. But it’s called a dual. Even in Strong’s definitions he’ll say a dual, a plural - dual meaning two. Plural yes, thousands or millions, no. Two.
Hebrew reads from right to left and when you come to the end of the word heaven/heavens it has what looks like a square box ( ם ), that’s the dual. That’s the plurality, but it signifies dual. Now some things can be plural and mean thousands, but not heavens. Heavens is always used in the plural with that box, which means two. Two heavens.
Now interestingly, probably most of you know that the word translated God, in the beginning of the Bible is Elohim, El means God. Elohim means plurality - plural, but it’s a plural dual, two. What does that do to the trinity theory, that Elohim is plural, Father, Son and Holy Spirit? It wipes it out.
What does it do with the idea that God created the heavens and the earth through His Son Jesus Christ? It verifies it, dual. “In the beginning, (dual) El. Not that there are two Gods, but El in the duality of Father and Son.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version