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Why did God take so long to create everything?
Kat:
This is from the 06 conference 'THE FATHER'S WILL?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html -------
John 10:30 I and the Father are one!
They’re not the same person, but ‘one,’ there’s a difference. But one, same spirit, same mind, same attitude, same character, same power, same strength, same wisdom, same purpose, they are one.
v
So He is God, but He is not His own Father. Jesus Christ came to reveal the Father; Luke 10:22; John 6:46;
Matt 11:27, Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will reveal Him.
Nobody knew anything about God the Father, until Jesus Christ revealed Him. The only God that anybody knew was Jesus Christ.
v
If you want to come up with an analogy of where God is in His own realm, as far as time goes. The closest physical analogy you could come up with is a circle. Not starting back there and going this way, that way is the past and this way is the future.
Now if the realm of eternity is as a circle, can somebody point to where eternity begins on a circle? Can anyone show me, on this circle, where eternity ends? You can’t, can you.
Now I’ll give you another little mind boggler, not only can you not show me where it begins or where it ends, I’m telling you it has no beginning and it has no end. It doesn’t move in a circle, it is a circle. Therefore time has nothing to do with eternity.
Even your dictionaries most of them, not all, say eternity is an endless period. Eternity has nothing to do with time, time starts here and goes to there.
Eternity is like a circle, you can’t find the beginning and you can’t find the end. Because it has no beginning and it has no end. Therefore in that sense a circle is ultimate truth. So God knows there can never be any thing more perfect than He is. That’s where He introduces Himself to us. We are introduced to a being who is perfect.
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Since God the Father embodies a timeless eternity - therefore being apart from time or outside of time and time exists only within the created universe. It's God the Father only, He is eternal, because Jesus Christ is part of creation.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father."
Wasn't 'time' part of God's plan worked out in wisdom from before this creation? It must be, so the Father perceives something like time one way, but it might appear differently to the finite beings contained within it.
His existence is not actually spread out in time or space, as the existence of material objects are, but His existence is all at once. So it is not that the Father has always existed for as long as time has existed, but that God does not exist in time at all. He is apart from His creation, transcendent over it.
God is outside of time and time exists only within the created universe, all conscious beings are built to perceive time as a chain of events. since the brain presumably perceives time through information processing of external stimuli (experiences) and obeys the laws of causality. This creation is contingent on time and its changes are marked by time. Time is not a substance or a thing, but a relation between things, or more exactly a relation between changes in things.
Using the analogy Ray had of the circle, maybe it's like the idea of the Father possesses life all at once, as the center of a circle with time being represented by the circumference. The relation of the center of the circle to one point on its circumference is the same as its relation to any other point on it. To the Father all points in time are equally 'real,' not just the present. And this circle can expand out continuously.
Luke 1:33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."
The Father has self-existence/sufficiency, is perfection. So that He is changeless, will not change for the worse and does not need to change for the better.
The future is undetermined from the perspective of human beings, but in fact it is fixed and certainly determined by a sovereign God.
I struggle with these ethereal ideas and I've read these encyclopedia articles, though I do not agree with much of any of the theologies from philosophers throughout history, I did put together most of these thoughts from the article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time)
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/eternity/
People with minds more attuned to this feel free to show me the error in any of this.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
--- Quote from: theophilus on January 30, 2013, 05:33:59 AM ---
--- Quote from: " Shorty " on January 29, 2013, 08:05:04 PM ---
--- Quote ---Like I've imagined on many occasions, eternity WILL BE A VERY LONG TIME. What will we do with it?
--- End quote ---
~Theo
I can only imagine. ::)
Not to be snarky, but no one can give you a satisfactory response to that question because no one knows the answer to that - and how could we? We haven't gotten there yet! See?
Who wants to bet God knows what we'll do with all that time? ;)
--- End quote ---
My bad! My question was a rhetorical one. I wasn't expecting anyone to know. I know this is something that hasn't been revealed to man.
But I do remember Ray say something about God using His chosen ones to bring the rest of humankind to salvation, and later THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE. His statement is very intriguing and brings up more questions. I'm sure you have thought about this already.
Here it is!!!:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13817.msg121839.html#msg121839
Ray's words:
Here is where we really get to what OUR salvation is all about. We, the BODY of Christ, who ARE the SONS OF GOD will be used to SAVE THE REST OF THE WORLD AND THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE!! "Or are you not aware that the SAINTS shall judge the WORLD?... Are you not aware that we shall be JUDGING ANGELS..."
More questions indeed....
--- End quote ---
Oh yes, I see where you were going with that. Yes, I do remember that, and I, too, wonder about that myself. God will prepare those who He elects to bring salvation to all. From my vantage point at this moment in time, I imagine it'll be pretty exhilerating if you're one of the elect, and humbling if you're one of those being called to salvation and going through the lake of fire. One thing is for sure, no elect person will be "lording it over" anyone. But the elect must have a backbone. That's essential. :)
indianabob:
Hi Gina,
Liked your reply.
One question though; what did you mean by the last sentence?
One thing is for sure, no elect person will be "lording it over" anyone. But the elect must have a backbone. That's essential. :)
What I'm wondering is when do we need the "backbone" or the courage of our convictions or what else that may mean? Is it an attribute we develop during this life or a gift? And why is it needed after we are spiritual and have real humility along with the power to speak with authority?
I would like to learn a little more on this topic.
Indiana Bob
Gina:
Um hm, I see you're back to your old ways, iBob. Alrighty then...Tell ya what? Watch this gif while I formulate my reply. Check out the backbone on that guy!
(Nooooo! Don't answer that, Gina -- trick question!!)
cjwood:
--- Quote from: Kat on January 30, 2013, 12:15:57 PM ---
Wasn't 'time' part of God's plan worked out in wisdom from before this creation? So that the Father perceives something like time one way and it might appear differently to the finite beings contained within it. His existence is not actually spread out in time or space, as the existence of material objects are, but His existence is all at once. So it is not that the Father has always existed for as long as time has existed, but that God does not exist in time at all. He is apart from His creation, transcendent over it.
--- End quote ---
kathy, the above statement is so awesome. such a great explanation reflecting God the Father's glory. and power.
claudia
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