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Why did God take so long to create everything?
Oatmeal:
I am posting this now to provide more indication right now of the pauperism of mainstream science, and by thus showing the necessity of proving doctrine from the Scriptures rather than from science.
In this thread I made mention, with some evidence, in regard to:
1. An easy to understand refutation of Einstein's theory of Special Relativity written by a scientist who once taught Relativity.
2. An open stand made by scientists against the big bang theory who stated that without hypothetical entities/fudge factors such as dark matter and dark energy, things that have never been observed, there would be a fatal contradiction between observations and the predictions made by the big bang theory (the protest web site has now been discontinued but a copy of the protest can be found on the Internet).
3. Red shift not being an indicator of speed of recession or distance from the earth. Because this finding stands against the big bang theory this finding is ignored by mainstream science.
4. Black holes.
In one of the replies to my post the simple to understand explanation of the falsity of the theory of Special Relativity (which theory preceded the theory of General Relativity) was ignored and a defence made of the theory of General Relativity:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on February 01, 2013, 02:51:56 PM ---General Relativity is used in real-life applications every day. Your GPS would not work without taking it into account.
--- End quote ---
This is saying that General Relativity must be true because scientists are telling us that practical science says that it is true. This has similarity to someone saying that eternal punishment must be true because pastors are telling us that the bible says that it is true.
In the first case, the easy to understand refutation of the theory of Special Relativity is ignored and no effort, or no apparent effort, is made to consider the refutation. In the second case the easy to understand (if God gives the understanding) refutation of the Scriptures is ignored, and no effort is made to consider the refutation.
The bible (correctly translated) does not say that eternal punishment is true, even if pastors claim that it does, and practical science does not say that Relativity is true, even if scientists claim that it does.
The fact that radio waves travel faster east to west than from west to east has nothing to do with the theory of Relativity, but is to do with the Sagnac effect, which effect can be explained without any Relativity input whatsoever (although some may force-fit Relativity into the explanation). The Sagnac effect is well understood and is used to detect rotation. I do understand why radio waves travel faster east to west than from west to east and I do not understand Relativity. I question whether there exists anyone at all who truly understands (the doctrine of) Relativity.
Mainstream philosophical based science may claim what it wants to claim, but a real life engineer working on a practical level does not need to take Relativity into account when writing a computer software program to co-ordinate with GPS satellites. Google "Ron Hatch" in association with "GPS" and "relativity".
Perhaps someone would like to bring up the Hefele-Keating "experiment" as proof of Relativity:
The original test results were not published by Hafele & Keating, in their famous 1972 paper; they published figures that were radically different from the actual test results which are here published for the first time. An analysis of the real data shows that no credence can be given to the conclusions of Hafele & Keating.
- Alphonsus Gabriel Kelly, Hafele & Keating Tests: Did They Prove Anything?, 2000 (this quote can be viewed on the Internet (Google Books))
In regard to the eclipse photographs of 1919 (touted as proof of General Relativity), Stephen Hawking in his book A Brief History of Time, admits: "later examination of the photographs taken on that expedition showed the errors were as great as the effect they were trying to measure. Their measurement had been sheer luck, or a case of knowing the result they wanted to get, not an uncommon occurrence in science."
Page 32 – Bantam Books April 1988 (downloaded from the Internet)
Page 20 – updated version downloaded from the Internet.
Remember also, as in the Sagnac effect, that a Relativistic explanation for something does not prove Relativity true. If a then b. b is found to be true. This does not prove a to be true, because b could be caused by c.
It is very likely that Relativity was invented or unveiled in an attempt to circumvent the findings of the Michelson-Morley experiment (and possibly other experiments), which had a result much lower than expected, but still a result, and which result was claimed as a null.
Oatmeal
indianabob:
Thanks Oatmeal for the reference to Michelson-Morley experiment of 1887. I found a book on that research in 1995 and was able to learn enough to realize how biased both private and Government funding can be. I was at the time working at the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois and had the good fortune to have access to their expansive library of facts and fiction.
The Logical flaws of Einstein's Relativity by Leonard Parish 1977
One of my favorite phrases is that we know Relativity is true because science would not operate without it being true.
Also, the professors in the Physics Department taught their graduate students that they needed to have a working grasp of politics as their source of funding if they expected to remain in that field of endeavor.
Just one persons experience with "research"
Dennis Vogel:
I have to tell you I have not read any of this. But IMO "Why did God take so long to create everything?" Because that's how long it took according to the laws God created.
Hundreds of years ago some famous astronomer calculated the distance from the earth to Jupiter but dismissed his calculation because he could not believe God would waste so much space between the two planets.
Fun video: http://youtu.be/4Z9rM8ChTjY
indianabob:
Dear Friend Dennis,
I like your hypothesis, but I really wonder whether God has to publish a set of laws to obey before God can begin creating.
With the level of wisdom and power that we attribute to God why couldn't God just apply God's intuition. For example why could not God just establish the laws while God was creating instead of prior to creating the earth and the rest of the Universe.
God is not a man that he should test a theory before creating to see if the materials God "found" in the universe could be manipulated to the desired end.
The laws of God including natural laws, are in place for the benefit of man rather than for God's benefit or need.
Just wondering whether we limit God's "POW" factor. Can't God just will it to be and there it is?
I don't think God is limited by the speed of light. Most likely God limited photon velocity for our benefit
I agree that God is outside of time, but IF God's angels have to travel in the Universe why cannot they just will themselves to be a trillion parsec away and be there instantly; at the speed of thought?
That's what my wife does. She thinks of a task for me to perform and expects it to happen. ;D
Any who, that's what I might do if I could. (smile)
Kat:
--- Quote from: indianabob on March 02, 2015, 09:02:09 PM ---Just wondering whether we limit God's "POW" factor. Can't God just will it to be and there it is?
I don't think God is limited by the speed of light. Most likely God limited photon velocity for our benefit
I agree that God is outside of time, but IF God's angels have to travel in the Universe why cannot they just will themselves to be a trillion parsec away and be there instantly; at the speed of thought?
--- End quote ---
Bob, you said "I agree that God is outside of time," that's just it, God is not limited to any physical aspect of this creation. He is not trapped within the slow development/evolution of this creation through a process over time, no He is omnipresent.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'
Rom 4:17 (as it is written, "I HAVE MADE YOU A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS") in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
The "POW" factor is a reality to Him... what do you think the big bang was? This universe is what He has created for us, with all it's 'laws' which are consistent... gravity always pulls things in, no need to worry that it might stop working that way. Science has helped determine some of these things for us, or at least given us things to consider.
God is certainly not limited, it's just from our finite perspective that things may seem limited, certainly not from His perspective.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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