> General Discussions
Why did God take so long to create everything?
indianabob:
Dear Friend Kat,
Very much appreciate your reply.
However, have to disagree slightly.
The "big bang theory" is just that, a theory that has recently come into disrepute due to further examination over time. From one perspective it states that God lit the fuse and stood back and let the concentrated energy/matter expand to fill the previously created infinite space.
There is NO observational evidence that it MUST be true. There is only interesting theories that change every generation and never seem to achieve full success.
So my point then would be that when expounding scripture it is best not to use science theories in our explanation as if they were proven facts & inspired of God as our work in scripture truly is.
Scientist postulate ideas out of an honest curiosity about how things work and that is fine, but after they work on proving a theory for a few years they can get hung up on their favorite paper that got them their doctorate and accompanying fame.
Without credentials in the science publications they don't achieve tenure and get promoted to Department Chair with the increase in salary or hundreds of new students that support the research grants necessary for professional success such as their own efforts to find some new way of viewing the mysterious Universe.
Professional researchers are not much different than professional churchmen in that regard. It is all about looking good and attracting donors. So if we common folks cannot verify that their theories meet the test of demonstrability then we should handle them with care and reasonable doubt.
Sorry to be so long winded. 8)
Thanks for considering my view point. Indiana Bob
= = =
"The "POW" factor is a reality to Him... what do you think the big bang was? This universe is what He has created for us, with all it's 'laws' which are consistent... gravity always pulls things in, no need to worry that it might stop working that way. Science has helped determine some of these things for us, or at least given us things to consider.
God is certainly not limited, it's just from our finite perspective that things may seem limited, certainly not from His perspective.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
[/quote]
Joel:
Bob,
You asked "Can't God just will it to be and there it is?"
The way I see it the answer is yes, of course.
Jesus showed this to the crowds, and especially to his disciples many, many times.
Matthew 21:18-22 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If you have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if you shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Jesus no doubt taught a great lesson to the disciples about faith using that fig tree. The disciples actually saw, and heard Jesus give the command unto the fig tree, and saw it wither.
If someone else came along and noticed the withered tree, their conclusion may be, it died from lack of water, fertilizer, or from disease, over a longer period of time.
When the fact is Jesus himself caused it to die swiftly.
If Jesus would have removed the mountain as he said could be done, how would that have been seen by the disciples, and anyone else that didn't know what was actually happening?
Mountain is blown apart like it was a volcano?
Mountain is destroyed by a giant earthquake?
Mountain rises out of the sea, and plunges back in, and goes out of sight? Or some other way.
How old is God's physical creation that we see today? 6,7,8,10 thousand years? 2,3,4, or more billions of years? I don't know.
All I know is, GOD the FATHER created it through THE WORD, The LORD, and SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST.
Anyway, there is much to think about, and obviously more to learn.
Joel
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: indianabob on March 02, 2015, 09:02:09 PM ---Dear Friend Dennis,
I like your hypothesis, but I really wonder whether God has to publish a set of laws to obey before God can begin creating.
With the level of wisdom and power that we attribute to God why couldn't God just apply God's intuition. For example why could not God just establish the laws while God was creating instead of prior to creating the earth and the rest of the Universe.
God is not a man that he should test a theory before creating to see if the materials God "found" in the universe could be manipulated to the desired end.
The laws of God including natural laws, are in place for the benefit of man rather than for God's benefit or need.
Just wondering whether we limit God's "POW" factor. Can't God just will it to be and there it is?
I don't think God is limited by the speed of light. Most likely God limited photon velocity for our benefit
I agree that God is outside of time, but IF God's angels have to travel in the Universe why cannot they just will themselves to be a trillion parsec away and be there instantly; at the speed of thought?
That's what my wife does. She thinks of a task for me to perform and expects it to happen. ;D
Any who, that's what I might do if I could. (smile)
--- End quote ---
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
If God used other methods then that would make God a lair.
Example: If God supernaturally placed dinosaur bones in the Grand Canyon then that would make God a liar because dinosaur bones do not belong in the Grand Canyon. That would be trickery / lying.
Dennis Vogel:
I also suggest you watch http://youtu.be/2PNgXMHGS2U
indianabob:
Hi Dennis,
I listened to Ray's recording and I think I get your point.
Wisdom is the principle thing and God got or birthed wisdom before he built the worlds.
- - -
This then took preparation. It means that God had a plan and followed it. Thanks for that.
- - -
My previous comments should have said that God didn't NEED to take billions of years to see His plan and His work come to fruition; once the work began. So my question then would be why do scientist believe, in their opinion, that God needed that much time?
You have said earlier that God's doesn't lie so then what we see in the Universe or on earth must be correct or a valid illustration of how God did it.
But then this very forum is all about millions of leading churchmen seeing and not perceiving the true facts, because God has let Satan blind them. Could that not also apply to scientist??
- - -
I don't know of course how God relates to time in God's own existence. I just do not see any scientific evidence that God's birthed wisdom and God's subsequent perfect plan took billions of years to come into existence. Could be, but the so called evidence of research scientist (astrophysicist) is questionable and should not in my view be treated as fact the way we treat scripture as fact. e.g. the fact that we do not yet know how large the Universe is should keep us from assuming facts not in evidence. e.g (the red shift question)
- - -
2. (subject to correction) I also don't see your point in the story about dinosaurs in the Grand Canyon. I don't say or believe that it was necessary for God to miraculously place dinosaur bones in the grand canyon. Did someone else state that?
- - -
Also why do you say that dinosaur bones DO NOT belong in the Grand canyon?
I have not previously heard that on the forum, but maybe I missed it.
And also, if you care to comment, why are we using dinosaur bones to estimate the age of the earth? I've heard several hypotheses, but not sure how the forum treats that subject.
I really liked your comment from the earlier letter about small miracles
such as God putting a thought in our mind that changed our way of thinking or perceiving what was important. I guess I always assumed that God had a direct connection with the mind of every human and could just prompt us with interest and curiosity when the time was right. ;D
Kindly offered and subject to correction.
Thank you for your patience, Indiana Bob
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on March 03, 2015, 08:55:04 AM ---
--- Quote from: indianabob on March 02, 2015, 09:02:09 PM ---Dear Friend Dennis,
I like your hypothesis, but I really wonder whether God has to publish a set of laws to obey before God can begin creating.
With the level of wisdom and power that we attribute to God why couldn't God just apply God's intuition. For example why could not God just establish the laws while God was creating instead of prior to creating the earth and the rest of the Universe.
God is not a man that he should test a theory before creating to see if the materials God "found" in the universe could be manipulated to the desired end.
The laws of God including natural laws, are in place for the benefit of man rather than for God's benefit or need.
Just wondering whether we limit God's "POW" factor. Can't God just will it to be and there it is?
I don't think God is limited by the speed of light. Most likely God limited photon velocity for our benefit
I agree that God is outside of time, but IF God's angels have to travel in the Universe why cannot they just will themselves to be a trillion parsec away and be there instantly; at the speed of thought?
That's what my wife does. She thinks of a task for me to perform and expects it to happen. ;D
Any who, that's what I might do if I could. (smile)
--- End quote ---
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
If God used other methods then that would make God a lair.
Example: If God supernaturally placed dinosaur bones in the Grand Canyon then that would make God a liar because dinosaur bones do not belong in the Grand Canyon. That would be trickery / lying.
--- End quote ---
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