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Author Topic: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?  (Read 5517 times)

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Rhys

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What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« on: December 02, 2012, 04:00:04 AM »

I was recently listening to the audio listed below and has got me thinking about those who teach an eternal hell.


Repentance & Guilty of All . . . . . . . . Nashville Conference 2005

Let me tell you something, the scribes and the Pharisees never taught a doctrine this damnable. You listen to Jesus Christ. He called them everything butÖ I wonít say it. They never taught a doctrine half, a tenth, not a billionth as evil as what the church is teaching today. Iím telling you, this teaching of hell is the ultimate blasphemy. There is no greater sin that any human being can think or do, than to believe that the God that they worship will actually torture their mothers and fathers and some of their sisters and brothers and relatives in real fire for all eternity. Itís the ultimate sin. They think they are doing God a favor by teaching this.

No, theyíre not going to be tortured for all eternity, because we are teaching against that. But wait until you find out what their punishment will be. It will blow you away.



It seems to me so many other sins seem terrible these days and brought to the front of the cue and from what I have heard of those in the world, they think hell is just a joke. Those in the church are either warning those of the coming torture, all they seem rather quiet which I always thought seemed strange when they sit down together drinking there coffee and going on about the wonderful things going on in the lives while knowing all the other people around them are on the way to hell but thatís OK the coffee is great. For those that do warn others at least they are putting into practice what they believe.

While thinking about this the following questions have come to mind.

Does Ray mention what will happen to these people in the judgement? I think he mentioned he would cover it.

Many people I have known that teach hell seem to have a lot of other good things they are doing, such as helping the poor, supporting those in many ways with there problems and so on. Because they teach hell or believe it do all these other things count for nothing as they are committing the ultimate sin and there punishment will be so severe the good things will have little reward?

Is Godís judgement the same for those who believe and donít teach it and those who teach others? I can see bad things on both sides of this.

Should these people be warned to stop before itís too late for them? Of course you have to know what you are talking about before doing this. Question is will they listen and should we be warning them. I came out of church and to bible truths and never had anyone warning me so wonder if I should warn them all pray for them all do nothing. ("...that he [the elders] may be able to [1] entreat with sound teaching as well as to [2] expose those who contradict" (Titus 1:9, Concordant NT).)

Is the punishment fair as many are only doing what they are taught and as still in the church they are deceived? As Ray says they think they are doing God a favor which shows they are deceived (For it is GOD [not us, GOD] which works in us BOTH to will and to do of HIS good pleasure" Phil 2:13)


In the past I never felt this teaching was such a problem. More and more now I see it like Ray states. I feel for my friends who are still teaching this. They seem wonderful in so many other ways and have helped me a lot in the past often going out of their way to help me with my issues.  I guess I feel concerned for them when they want to please God but is God pleased with them.



The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

Rhys
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 07:35:04 AM »

 
Ignorance and fear teach the worst about God. God is not the monster Religion worships and blindly imagines.   


The DEPTHS of Satan - teaches that what God does mostly, is HATE!....This doctrine is both the most evil and the most stupid....http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

 
Ray has thoroughly debunked religious false teaching that if you aren't saved before you die, then it is "too late." There is no "too late" for God.


 There is a season for everything for the human condition. God is not subject to human conditioning." God isn't a person." L Ray Smith


Eternity is not a condition of time. Eternity is timeless. Timeless doesn't mean endless time. It means without time. Ray touched on the subject of eternity and time, in the latter part of one of his beautiful conferences. You might want to go and look and see what Ray said. Invariably, you'll find in the search, other pointers to Truth that God has a way of putting in front of you!

Arc
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Kat

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 11:22:56 AM »


Rhys,

When you think about it everybody will be raised up at resurrection thinking/believing/understanding exactly the way they did when they died. When people that have such twisted ideas about who God is stand before the judgment seat of our spectacular and probably frightening Lord God in all His glory... what are they going to think is happening? It will not be what they had supposed. All who are not in the first resurrection will be raised up to condemnation and that should be obvious to them pretty quickly. 

Jude 1:14  Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
v. 15  to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Mat 25:41  "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (eonian) fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

So what will they think is about to happen to them? What do they understand about this judgment, giving account? Well most Christians think it's either heaven or hell fire... and what is happening to them will not be their idea of heaven. So to their utter dismay they are cast into the Lake of fire....

Rev 19:20  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet G5578 who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Who is this "beast?" We all are while in the carnal flesh and who is a "false prophet?" Wouldn't it be those who are teaching/preaching falsehood about who God is?

G5578 (false prophet) a spurious prophet, that is, pretended foreteller or religious impostor: - false prophet.

Realize that God will not judge all Christians the same, He looks on the heart and knows exactly what each person is guilty of or desire reward for. Some deserve "many stripes," other few, but all that are raised up after the first resurrection are carnal sinners and deserve condemnation.

Rom 3:10  As it is written:
       "There is none righteous, no, not one;
v. 11  There is none who understands;
       There is none who seeks after God.
v. 12  They have all turned aside;
       They have together become unprofitable;
       There is none who does good, no, not one."

1Co 3:11  For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
v. 12  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
v. 13  each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Now if you have a good understand of this truth and feel compelled to warn people, then do so. That's what the Apostles did, that is what Ray did.

Col 1:24  And now I am happy about my sufferings for you, for by means of my physical sufferings I am helping to complete what still remains of Christ's sufferings on behalf of his body, the church.
v. 25  And I have been made a servant of the church by God, who gave me this task to perform for your good. It is the task of fully proclaiming his message,
v. 26  which is the secret he hid through all past ages from all human beings but has now revealed to his people.
v. 27  God's plan is to make known his secret to his people, this rich and glorious secret which he has for all peoples. And the secret is that Christ is in you, which means that you will share in the glory of God.
v. 28  So we preach Christ to everyone. With all possible wisdom we warn and teach them in order to bring each one into God's presence as a mature individual in union with Christ.
v. 29  To get this done I toil and struggle, using the mighty strength which Christ supplies and which is at work in me. (GNB)

But realize that you will be held accountable for what you teach, it is a good thing to tell others of this truth, but it is also a high calling that not all receive.

1Co 12:27  Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
v. 28  And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.
v. 29  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?
v. 30  Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
v. 31  But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Rene

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2012, 12:25:25 PM »


Does Ray mention what will happen to these people in the judgement? I think he mentioned he would cover it.

Rhys

Hi Rhys,

In "Judgement" all people will learn righteousness.  Ray has taught on this many times. Here is a section from the "Lake of Fire" series Part 16 D-4 that touches on this subject:

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm

                                                           Gehenna Fire Judgement

JUDGMENT AS DEFINED BY SCRIPTURE IS GOOD

"The Judgment of God" are scary words for most people. Partly this is due to the Church portraying Judgment as a horrible and fearful thing involving sentencing many to an eternity of insane torture by fire. We will now take a Scriptural look at the doctrine of Gehenna Fire Judgment.

God is presented as the Great Judge over His creation from early Scripture. The first time the word "judge" is found in Scripture:

    "...shall not the Judge of all the earth do right" (Gen. 18:25).

Actually this phrase is: "shall not the Judge of all the earth do justice."

"Justice" is translated from the Hebrew mishpat and it means according to Dr. Strong: 'a verdict-favorable or unfavorable.' And our dictionaries add to this: "a quality of being just; fairness." So "justice" is "just and fair" (interestingly John Hagee teaches that an eternity of torture in a literal hell of literal fire is "JUSTICE," and Dr. James Kennedy teaches that hell is "FAIR").

NO, an eternity of torture in fire is not "justice," nor is it "fair," as these two great pillars of heresy contend.

The word "Judge" in this verse is from the Heb: shaphat and means according to Dr. Strong: "judge, to pronounce sentence-to vindicate or punish."

It is clear that they are very similar. God the Judge will, "do JUSTICE," or will "Judge justly," or as King James translates it "do right." And not surprisingly, the New Testament tells us the very same thing:

    "Because He [God] has appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness..." (Acts 17:31).

Notice that Jesus will [1] judge, [2] the world, [3] in righteousness.

Next let's read one of my favorite verses (Isaiah 26:9):

    "When Thy [1] judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants [2] of the world [3] will learn righteousness."

What a marvelous spiritual match. When Jesus Judges the world in righteousness, the world will "learn righteousness."

Ironically, the first time we find the words "justice and judgment" in the Bible is in the very same verse:

    "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him" (Gen. 18:19).

Here we learn that doing "justice and judgment" brings the blessings of God.

Will Jesus and God His Father do the "right" and just thing when it comes to judging this world? Certainly. In the Old Testament we read that God does not change (Mal. 3:6); God the Father does not change (James 1:17); Jesus Christ does not change (Heb. 13:8). Use your God-given minds for a moment and consider the insanity of infinite punishment for finite sins, and the same punishment for both gross and minor sins.

    "But the fearful [Gk: timid], and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

Does anyone in their right mind believe that murderers and timid people should be sentenced to the same "eternity of punishment?" Why even most heathen governments match the punishment to fit the nature and degree of a crime. But most Christian theology does not have even the good sense of some pagans.

Even when "many stripes" were administered (even among wicked men), they were to be limited to 40 lashes: Deut. 25:3; Lk 12:47; Acts 16;23; II Cor. 11:24.

To "judge" means to set right, whether it is in chastening or sentencing. "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right"-that is to judge justly so as to bring about change. 

    "When Thy [God's] judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world [everyone] will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9).

When the wicked are left to their own devices, they will NOT learn righteousness, but when God's just judgments are added to the mix, and Jesus judges in righteousness, they cannot but "learn righteousness." Why won't the Church teach these marvelous truths? Well, of course it can't, seeing it is deceived.

God's judgments and the knowledge of His plan and purpose for humanity has reached precious few in the past, but it is prophesied to cover the earth:

    "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Isa. 11:9).

And:

    "For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Habakkuk 2:14).

It is an easy thing to turn men (and women) into beasts and heartless criminals. Torturing them or annihilating them would likewise be an easy thing for God to do. But turning vile and demented criminals like Hitler, Saddam, or Charles Manson into godly saints, now that's an accomplishment.

Of course most Christians and theologians and pastors do not believe that God is up to a task this great. Just wait. If God can spiritually transform a criminal like the Pharisee Saul, into the loving Apostle Paul, Saddam and the boys will not challenge God's ability to convince them of their great need of repentance.


Renť
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 12:28:45 PM by Rene »
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Gina

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2012, 02:07:20 PM »

Hey Rhys,

This is a tough topic that doesn't have a clear cut answer everyone will be satisfied with. 

Ray specifically said they will incur a punishment that will apparently be a surprise, even to us.

Maybe this will help you find the answer you're searching for re what punishment certain people will receive:

Luke 12

41 Peter said to him, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everybody?"

42 The Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the right times?

43 Blessed is that servant whom his lord will find doing so when he comes.

44 Truly I tell you, that he will set him over all that he has.

45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My lord delays his coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken,

46 then the lord of that servant will come in a day when he isn't expecting him, and in an hour that he doesn't know, and will cut him in two, and place his portion with the unfaithful.

47 That servant, who knew his lord's will, and didn't prepare, nor do what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes,

48 but he who didn't know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes. To whoever much is given, of him will much be required; and to whom much was entrusted, of him more will be asked.


2 Timothy 3

1 But know this, that in the last days, grievous times will come.

2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 without natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good,

4 traitors, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;

5 holding a form of godliness, but having denied its power. Turn away from these, also.

6 For some of these are people who creep into houses, and take captive gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,

7 always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Even as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so do these also oppose the truth; men corrupted in mind, who concerning the faith, are rejected.

9 But they will proceed no further. For their folly will be evident to all men, as theirs also came to be.



There is no denying that a few truly don't know what they're teaching is wrong and blasphemous and NOT the Lord's will. 

But there are many who definitely know the difference between right and wrong.   They will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb. (Ref. Rev. 14)

Someone remarked, a lamb couldn't possibly torment anyone.  True, but when God opens your eyes and you see yourself in the Light of Christ's Goodness (as Paul saw himself)...it's humbling to say the least -- it's akin to mental torture.  (Oh my God I can't believe I did that. - You know what I'm saying -- we've all said that ourselves over stupid childish stuff we've done and we know that feeling.)

They will be saved in the end, sure.  But if they do not examine their words, and repent now in this life, they will not reign with Christ; they will have received their rewards here on earth.   

Hey, wherever your treasure is, there will your heart be also.  We must be willing to forsake ALL!  It's not good enough to give to charity and do good deeds, though that's not a bad thing, but get a load of this:  Even the Mafia, etc., does good things for their own. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 02:43:11 PM by Gina »
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Rene

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 03:24:27 PM »


Ray specifically said they will incur a punishment that will apparently be a surprise, even to us.


Speaking of "punishment", this is what Ray stated in the "Lake of Fire" series Part 16-D3, The Sermon On The Mount...:

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm

Punishment has its place, but punishment is not the best deterrent to sin. Righteous judgment, however, is a great deterrent to sin:

    "When THY Judgments are in the earth the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9).

Right judgment produces righteousness.


This may not be the answer you are looking for, but it holds the key to your understanding if you can see it.  Judgment will be by fire; God's consuming fire.  People will come to see their God hating ways and beliefs, and this process will be a painful experience as the veil of deceit and blindness is removed. 

Renť
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Gina

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 04:23:36 PM »

Agreed.  Punishment isn't the best deterrent to sin.  But since Rhys was asking what punishment they're going to receive, I figured the best thing to do would be to be honest with him and tell him what that punishment will be.  I don't find blessings in store for people who habitually and willingly go against God's will, I find God's wrath and indignation.  ("Why then is He still angry with us?") God isn't going to swat them on the backside and say " Naughty, naughty...now, don't you do that anymore..."    It's going to be very, very difficult -- and painful, as you said.  With what judgment you dole out that's what you receive.  That's what the bible says.  But of course that's not the end of the matter.  The end of the matter is they'll be cleansed and saved and God will be all in all.  But Rhys wasn't asking about the end of the matter.  He was asking specifically about their punishment.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2012, 04:46:41 PM »

I think the 'surprise' is that they will not be first.  There is an order to things.  The Jews will not precede the gentiles.  The Pharisees will not precede the harlots and publicans.  There will be many saying Lord, Lord, have we not done wonderful works in Thy Name who will not precede the world at large.  It actually is better to be cold than luke-warm. 

When I think back on my time as an "evangelical" and the 'joy' we were encouraged to either have or fake when an actual sinner was 'saved', I can see 'them' in judgement.  Some will be glad, and others will be mad--mad that the ones they had consigned to Hell (including many times fellow christians) should be received as sons and daughters while they are not, as they had presumed.

I have to believe that by the time it is 'their' turn, they will have learned a lot about the way God Loves and works, and that the goodness of God will draw them to repentance.  But not before.

God judges us individually, though scripture puts 'us' in categories.  He does this for our benefit, not because He can't keep track of so many individual hearts.  Every man does what is right in his own eyes, but God judges the heart.  It's blasphemous to believe that God will not save all.  But it's adding great heaping sin to that to delight in the future endless torture of most of mankind.  The Lord will sort us all out and do RIGHT by and in judgement for the purpose of creating us in His image.

As for good works, they are also judged.  What is truly good is refined and made better.  But there is a way to lose reward in the kingdom by doing 'good works' for the praise of men, or ostentatiously or without a cheerful heart or faithlessly.  There is a reward for such 'good works', but it is NOW, not later.  The Lord sees all and knows the very motives of our hearts.  Again, He will do what is right. 



 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 06:48:39 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Gina

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 05:02:11 PM »

Rhys,

Not to harp, but you selected an excerpt from Ray's paper that used the word punishment, but then you switched and asked about judgment and wondered what Ray said their judgment would be, but then you switched back and asked about their punishment.  I don't believe that judgment is the same as punishment, although judgment does entail punishment.

You said (and again, I promise I don't mean this as harping on you, but it helps to gain clarity so the getting the correct response is the end result):

Quote
It seems to me so many other sins seem terrible these days and brought to the front of the cue and from what I have heard of those in the world, they think hell is just a joke. Those in the church are either warning those of the coming torture, all they seem rather quiet which I always thought seemed strange when they sit down together drinking there coffee and going on about the wonderful things going on in the lives while knowing all the other people around them are on the way to hell but thatís OK the coffee is great. For those that do warn others at least they are putting into practice what they believe.

I don't agree that they believe what they're putting into practice by warning others about a place of eternal torment that they can't prove exists.   That is exactly why so many people believe that hell is a joke -- and good on them for using the brains that they've been given.  But because those in the church don't know any other way to deter people from breaking the law, they have to lie and put words in God's mouth for everyone to hear, including innocent little children.  People have been murdered because they don't believe in a god who would do that.  By the same token, people who do believe it are murdered or thrown in jail in Muslim and atheist countries.  But that doesn't make teaching it right.  God hates sinners but He doesn't torture them.  That's an evil, vile, disgusting man-made, invention.  Are you saying that robbing God of His good name and character and making Him out to be ten trillion gazillion times worse the monster that Hitler (and all his ilk combined) is far less a crime than say... murdering millions of Jews, raping little boys?  Because that's not what the bible says.  The bibles says that those who BLASPHEME the Holy Spirit of God  will not only not be forgiven in this age, but they will not receive forgiveness in the age to come! 

Is that righteous judgment or is that punishment?  It would really help me to get clear on the difference between punishment and judgment, if that's alright with you, Rhys.

:)

(Great topic by the way.)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 05:12:23 PM by Gina »
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Kat

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2012, 06:43:55 PM »



Mat 25:45  Then He shall answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.
Mat 25:46  And these shall go away into everlasting (eonian) punishmentG2851, but the righteous into everlasting life.

G2851 (punishment) - penal infliction: - punishment, torment.

Think about all these people in the resurrection of the dead who have had a lifetime to developed all kinds of sins, that are now habitual and ingrained. Now I don't think the punishment they will receive is literal stripes, as in physical beatings. But when Christ takes over rulership of this world those criminals and people who have developed every manner of wickedness will not be allowed to do any of these things anymore.

Now if you think about it in order to correct the wickedness in people will be a long and laborious process of continually correcting these wrong character flaws. This will be tormenting to be constantly supervised and corrected of every unrighteousness.

Isa 30:20  And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, yet your Teacher will not hide himself anymore, but your eyes shall see your Teacher.
Isa 30:21  And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, "This is the way, walk in it," when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left.

So there is no quick and easy way to re-teach most of these people, yes some will be easier then others, thinking of the patriarchs and John the Baptist. But most will have a long, hard, even torturous for some, way to go to un-learn all their wrong ways of thinking and be taught how to live in righteousness.
Well that's just what it seems like it could be to me anyway.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2012, 07:10:41 PM »

Quote
Not to harp, but you selected an excerpt from Ray's paper that used the word punishment, but then you switched and asked about judgment and wondered what Ray said their judgment would be, but then you switched back and asked about their punishment.  I don't believe that judgment is the same as punishment, although judgment does entail punishment.

Spoken like a real attorney  :)
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indianabob

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 08:22:34 PM »

Great observation Dennis,
Our Gina may be getting ready to sit for the bar (of justice) examination.
I'm learning NOT to try to put any thing over on her, she's too quick!  ;D

Love and hugs to Gina, Indianabob
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Gina

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2012, 08:42:57 PM »

haaa!  Thanks you two!  Love and hugs to you too, Bob and Dennis.   (I've been a legal secretary for going on 22 years now.  But I learned that tool from no one other than Ray.  I may have heard it elsewhere but it was his style that made it sink in and stick in my hard head. lol)

But back to the punishment issue.  I was just thinking too how it is said that the penalty (punishment) for sin is death.  That's probably the thing that would surprise most if not all, is knowing that death will be their punishment/penalty - as is true for all of us.  But then there's judgment -- and judgment can be severe or not severe, it can be a blessing too, but it is designed to get people and blasphemers alike to learn,  So now look at what Paul said he did with some blasphemers:

1 Tim. 1

18 This instruction I commit to you, my child Timothy, according to the prophecies which led the way to you, that by them you may wage the good warfare;

19 holding faith and a good conscience; which some having thrust away made a shipwreck concerning the faith;

20 of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I delivered to Satan, that they might be taught not to blaspheme.


That they might be taught [or LEARN] not to blaspheme, they were delivered to Satan.  I don't know exactly what that entailed, but whatever it is, I imagine it ends up in them begging God for mercy and acknowledging their wrongs and receiving mercy, just like Paul, who himself received mercy and served as an example as to how God is able to save even the worst sinner.  So certainly he would save all blasphemers (remember, that Paul was a blasphemer--he even said so).

Anyhoo.  :)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 08:45:45 PM by Gina »
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Rhys

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2012, 09:29:50 PM »

Thanks for all your responses, all very helpful and plenty for me to ponder on and read. I think some of my uses of the words judgement and punishment were not too clear as had a different train of thought and must admit I am not the best at putting down into words what I am thinking, something I still need to work on. Looking at the line I wrote below:

For those that do warn others at least they are putting into practice what they believe.

I was talking in a general sense of putting into action what you believe. I don't support those who preach hell. Thinking about my earlier questions I imagine myself with someone else who then starts to preach about going to hell to someone. Do I just stand there and listen or do I intervene. I would think now I would intervene with the knowledge and understanding I have but is it wise if you don't have the answers. Of course you may get attacked for it but if you are speaking the truth then Oh well that's what happens.

God bless

Rhys
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Gina

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2012, 09:56:43 PM »

Exactly.  You know enough of the answers to be able to say, sorry but I'm really not interested in engaging you in a conversation about some place that I am supremely convinced ... by God no less..  does not exist.  Thank you and have a nice day.  (Alternative ending:  Ey mate, how's things going with you these days?  Got a lot on your mind?  8) )

I might be the one who is the hardest to understand.  Something I'm aware of too.  It's always been hard to put my thoughts into words.  I have need for patience. ;) 
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Rhys

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2012, 11:13:00 PM »

I wonder sometimes what we will do in certain situations. I recall when I was in my early 20ís I was involved with the church in missionary work overseas and I think we were in the middle east or near it. Well we were preaching up a storm and a group of male Muslims came closer to hear what we had to say and they didnít look too happy. Well for some reason they singled me out wanting to ask me some questions. I donít know why they wanted me as I wasnít the one speaking at the time. They seemed quite aggressive but I felt I should go and talk to them even those in the group said donít but I felt something pulling me towards them, was praying at the time reminding the Lord what some of these aggressive Muslims do to Christians but felt God saying all would be OK. I am thinking at this point I am going to die and I feel pretty sure one of them has a knife. I started talking to them while thinking please donít kill me. They told me in a aggressive way they were all highly educated in religion with degrees and everything else and I didnít know that much. I felt I should ask them what questions they had with my limited knowledge, asking God at the time why did I say that for and I donít think I will have answers to there questions, reminding the Lord at this time that this is me we are talking about here I donít have there answers and said to God might need some help here. They started to ask a question in a we are not very happy with you state and I thought I donít even know what you are talking about and which one of you has the knife. Suddenly the answers came to me and I answered all of there questions which seemed to take around an hour. They were all impressed with my great knowledge and understanding of the scriptures which I never knew I had and thanked God for speaking through me. They were also all calm, itís like we are friends now. They thanked me for sharing and I was just glad I didnít have any knife wounds.

I feel it is good for us to learn and seek God in our understanding but we should also trust in god that He can use us at whatever stage we are at.

God bless

Rhys
 ???
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Gina

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2012, 11:35:48 PM »

Rhys, that is a wonderful and very funny story.  haha!  I can see me thinking the same things as you were.  Thank you for sharing!
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Gina

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2012, 11:49:01 PM »

p.s.  Every Muslim I've known personally has always been so mild mannered and well-educated, I had to laugh at your "balloon" thoughts about them carrying knives.  lol  I meant no offense.  I hope they weren't really and truly carrying knives.  And I'm thrilled at the way that ended for all involved.

God Bless.

Over and Out!
:)
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Rhys

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 12:09:22 AM »

No knives just felt like one of those situations of what have I got myself into here, just the way they came across. Cheers ???
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

cjwood

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Re: What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 02:39:16 AM »


I felt I should ask them what questions they had with my limited knowledge, asking God at the time why did I say that for and I donít think I will have answers to there questions, reminding the Lord at this time that this is me we are talking about here I donít have there answers and said to God might need some help here. They started to ask a question in a we are not very happy with you state and I thought I donít even know what you are talking about and which one of you has the knife. Suddenly the answers came to me and I answered all of there questions which seemed to take around an hour. They were all impressed with my great knowledge and understanding of the scriptures which I never knew I had and thanked God for speaking through me. They were also all calm, itís like we are friends now. They thanked me for sharing and I was just glad I didnít have any knife wounds.


hi rhys.  i was thinking about your statements noted above and wanted to find the Scripture that i remember reading before, which came to mind.  i found what i was thinking of in matt. 10:16,19-20, where Jesus was instructing His apostles before sending them out to the lost sheep of israel. 

matt. 10:
16. -  "behold, i send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless (simple) as doves.

19. -  "but when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.  for it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

anyway, i just wanted to say i enjoyed your post.

claudia

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