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Author Topic: Does Anyone Else See This?  (Read 8894 times)

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Joey Porter

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Does Anyone Else See This?
« on: July 27, 2006, 02:23:05 AM »

Okay, I'm just starting to type and I already have a feeling this may end up being a lengthy post.  This has to deal with the Kingdom, and judgment, etc.  I have really been meditating on this in recent times, and I believe I may be putting some things together.  Of course, much of this is discussed on Ray's site also.

I have been wondering about exactly how the judgment and the kingdom is going to take place, and just what our roles will be, and how it all correlates to our lives now.

As many of us have learned, the scriptures tell us that we are to judge ourselves now (by accepting and learning from the Lord's discipline) so that we will not be condemned with the world.

1 Corinthians 11
31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.


But what about judging others?  Should we be gaining better discernment when judging others in order to be fit for our part in the Kingdom?  I'm not talking about going around condemning everyone, but just having the God given discernment to see what's in men's hearts. There are a couple of scriptures that come to mind when thinking about this:

1 Corinthians 6
2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!


This passage reminds a lot of Christ's words:

Luke 16
10"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. 11So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? 12And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you property of your own?


Now, when  I was thinking earthly instead of heavenly, I used to think this pertained to how we manage our money.  But, is it possible that Paul and Jesus are telling us the same thing here?  If we can't learn to discern how to justly judge others now, we will not be prepared to do so when the time comes for us to take our parts in the kingdom.

I believe that Paul and Jesus also give us another "parallel teaching" in a couple other areas. 

Here are the familiar words of Christ:

Luke 6
42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.


(As a side note, I remember hearing Ray teach that he believes our brother really does have a plank in his eye too, but since we've got a plank in our eye, we can't see that it actually is a plank in our brother's eye.  I think he's right.)

But let's see how those words line up with Paul:

2 Timothy 2
 20In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. 21If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.


Perhaps "cleansing ourselves of the latter" is equivalent to "taking the plank out of our own eye."  Perhaps being "useful to the master and prepared to do any good work" is equivalent to "seeing clearly to remove the speck from our brother's eye."

And yet another parallel that I can't help but notice between Paul's and Christ's teachings:

Luke 12
42The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.


What does Christ mean by "give their food allowance at the proper time?"  I believe Paul may give us the answer in his writings:

1 Corinthians 3
1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it.


Does anyone else see that?  Paul had the discernment to give the Corinthians their food allowance at the proper time!  He understood that trying to shove solid food down their throats would be destructive.  Is it possible that we also need to be asking God for the discernment to minister to our brethren, feeding milk to those who can only handle milk, and feeding solid food to those who are further along? 

I think it's interesting that in Luke chapter 12, Christ contrasts the faithful and wise manager with those who beat their fellow servants.  Could this be, beating them with the Word, looking down on them and condemning them, while we ourselves are full of hypocrisy?  Could He be referring to trying to take a speck out of our brother's eye while we yet have a plank in our own eye? Perhaps He is referring to force feeding people meat when they're only able to handle milk.

So, what about the way we use the Word when dealing with others?  Do we twist it so that we can control people and scare them?  Do we "cut off their ears" so that they can't hear the Truth of God's word?

Matthew 26
 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.


What will happen if we cut off the ears of our fellow servants, if we become hasty and carnal and try to forcefeed meat to them when they can only handle milk?

52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

And of course, this is parallel to the parable of the 3 servants:

Luke 19
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant!


If we take up the sword (the Word of God) in a way that we misuse it, we will be cut asunder by the very sword that we wielded!

Luke 12
46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.


Does anyone else have any insight into this?
 





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MG

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2006, 02:42:07 AM »

Thank you Joey.

I was just thinking about all of this today and what you wrote really helped me understand more.
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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2006, 02:47:25 AM »

Thank you Joey.

I was just thinking about all of this today and what you wrote really helped me understand more.

Thank you for the encouraging words.
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jenny06

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2006, 02:58:55 AM »

Good to know that I am not alone. 
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2006, 09:41:34 AM »

Joey,

I found this to be a very thought provoking post, I see many of the things you wrote.

Thank you,

Joe 
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YellowStone

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2006, 09:52:37 AM »

Very interesting Joey, you certainly provide some interestinf parallels and they make sense to me.  :)

Thank you so much for sharing your insight.

Darren
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mongoose

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 11:23:08 AM »

Joey,  This is a very interesting post.  You've given me a lot to think about.  Thank you.

Love in Christ

mongoose
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angie

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 09:31:01 PM »

Hi Joey,

Luke 19
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant!


This reminds me of minister, pastors and other theological 'experts' who use the word of god in a mistranslated, fit-the-doctirine way in propagating untruths about the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel, turning it into bad news of a hellish afterlife and Jesus as the saviour of only 'some'. What are these men, if only in their own minds, but the servants of God?

Luke 12
46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers
.
 Again with reference to what I said above and these scriptures:

Matt 7:22
       
Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?
and the answer:
23 Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

I don't know if this is correct, it's just that when I read it and thought about it, it's the scriptures came into my mind, even though I had to look up where they were.

thought provoking post tho!

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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 11:53:30 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the kind replies.

Hi Joey,

Luke 19
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant!


This reminds me of minister, pastors and other theological 'experts' who use the word of god in a mistranslated, fit-the-doctirine way in propagating untruths about the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel, turning it into bad news of a hellish afterlife and Jesus as the saviour of only 'some'. What are these men, if only in their own minds, but the servants of God?

Luke 12
46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers
.
 Again with reference to what I said above and these scriptures:

Matt 7:22
       
Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?
and the answer:
23 Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

I don't know if this is correct, it's just that when I read it and thought about it, it's the scriptures came into my mind, even though I had to look up where they were.

thought provoking post tho!



Regarding those above verses - they remind me of how I used to think that the "wolves in sheep's clothing" would be people who deliberately and deceitfully preach false doctrine for evil motives.  But now I realize that any of us could be wolves in sheep's clothing, and we probably have been at certain times in our lives. I'm sure that most of the wolves out there don't even realize they're wolves.  They probably preach frequently about being aware of the wolves, not even realizing that they themsleves are wolves!  Remember when Jesus called the Pharisees children of the devil.  The scriptures certainly don't indicate that they were holding sceances and tattooing pentagrams on their bodies.  No, they were shocked and apalled that He could make such a claim.  But nevertheless, we know it's true because He said it.

As far as how the wolves will be judged - I have often wondered (not to get too negative or critical here), but I have often wondered if Calvinists will be judged by their own words and led to believe that they were one of the many who were predestined to burn in hell forever.  Perhaps judgmental and self righteous protestants who love to condemn catholics to hell for their erroneous beliefs, perhaps those protestants will be led to  believe that the catholics were right and they (the protestants) are on their way to hell.  One verse that always stays in my mind:

James 2
13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful.
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arnold

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 03:19:13 PM »

So Joey,

You then believe hell is forever?
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Joey Porter

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 09:40:51 PM »

So Joey,

You then believe hell is forever?

I'm not sure how you got that out of my post, but no.  Actually, I don't even believe "hell" is at all.  At least, not the way it's taught in religion.  But I do believe every man will reap what he has sown and those who have not forgiven as they have been forgiven will be turned over to the tormentors until they've paid back all they owe.  (Matthew 18)
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ned

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 11:31:35 PM »

I have been wondering about exactly how the judgment and the kingdom is going to take place, and just what our roles will be, and how it all correlates to our lives now.........But what about judging others? Should we be gaining better discernment when judging others in order to be fit for our part in the Kingdom? I'm not talking about going around condemning everyone, but just having the God given discernment to see what's in men's hearts. [

Hi Joey,
Just this morning I was studying about what my position should be on telling others the truth, and these verses I wrote down (which seem in-line with "judging") :
Prov 9:7-8 "He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame and he that rebuketh a wicked man getting himself a blot. Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee, rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
As happened to Paul in Acts:
Act 13:45 "But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming."
Jesus told us:
Matt7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

In hindsight, there were many times when I wanted to "cast my pearls before swine", but the words wouldn't come, or I would forget the verse I wanted to quote, and I reckon that was God-given discernment that this person shouldn't have these words.

I often wondered too about judging others because scripture often says "Judge not that ye be not judged", but I think maybe it refers to the carnal man which cannot judge others because of the BEAM in his own eye...however, once we are spiritually re-born, we judge others because Jesus is IN US, as he said:
John5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me".

Only when we have God's will in our hearts (Phil 2:13) can we rightly judge, whether now or in the next age:
1 Cor 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the LORD COME, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the heart: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Carnal men judge all the time, we see it every day in gossip alone, and we know it's not right, but think about if we have GOD'S WILL IN OUR HEARTS, our judgement changes, and we start to judge differently....

Just my thoughts Joey.

Marie
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jenny06

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 11:51:07 PM »

Joey, that Arnold may be refering what you said in your last post.  Specifically he may have been making reference to the Catholics and Protestant and Calvinist thing.

Thanks to everyone for the kind replies.

Hi Joey,

Luke 19
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant!


This reminds me of minister, pastors and other theological 'experts' who use the word of god in a mistranslated, fit-the-doctirine way in propagating untruths about the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel, turning it into bad news of a hellish afterlife and Jesus as the saviour of only 'some'. What are these men, if only in their own minds, but the servants of God?

Luke 12
46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers
.
 Again with reference to what I said above and these scriptures:

Matt 7:22
       
Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?
and the answer:
23 Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

I don't know if this is correct, it's just that when I read it and thought about it, it's the scriptures came into my mind, even though I had to look up where they were.

thought provoking post tho!



Regarding those above verses - they remind me of how I used to think that the "wolves in sheep's clothing" would be people who deliberately and deceitfully preach false doctrine for evil motives. But now I realize that any of us could be wolves in sheep's clothing, and we probably have been at certain times in our lives. I'm sure that most of the wolves out there don't even realize they're wolves. They probably preach frequently about being aware of the wolves, not even realizing that they themsleves are wolves! Remember when Jesus called the Pharisees children of the devil. The scriptures certainly don't indicate that they were holding sceances and tattooing pentagrams on their bodies. No, they were shocked and apalled that He could make such a claim. But nevertheless, we know it's true because He said it.

As far as how the wolves will be judged - I have often wondered (not to get too negative or critical here), but I have often wondered if Calvinists will be judged by their own words and led to believe that they were one of the many who were predestined to burn in hell forever. Perhaps judgmental and self righteous protestants who love to condemn catholics to hell for their erroneous beliefs, perhaps those protestants will be led to believe that the catholics were right and they (the protestants) are on their way to hell. One verse that always stays in my mind:

James 2
13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful.

 
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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2006, 12:22:05 AM »

I have been wondering about exactly how the judgment and the kingdom is going to take place, and just what our roles will be, and how it all correlates to our lives now.........But what about judging others? Should we be gaining better discernment when judging others in order to be fit for our part in the Kingdom? I'm not talking about going around condemning everyone, but just having the God given discernment to see what's in men's hearts. [

Hi Joey,
Just this morning I was studying about what my position should be on telling others the truth, and these verses I wrote down (which seem in-line with "judging") :
Prov 9:7-8 "He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame and he that rebuketh a wicked man getting himself a blot. Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee, rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
As happened to Paul in Acts:
Act 13:45 "But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming."
Jesus told us:
Matt7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

In hindsight, there were many times when I wanted to "cast my pearls before swine", but the words wouldn't come, or I would forget the verse I wanted to quote, and I reckon that was God-given discernment that this person shouldn't have these words.

I often wondered too about judging others because scripture often says "Judge not that ye be not judged", but I think maybe it refers to the carnal man which cannot judge others because of the BEAM in his own eye...however, once we are spiritually re-born, we judge others because Jesus is IN US, as he said:
John5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me".

Only when we have God's will in our hearts (Phil 2:13) can we rightly judge, whether now or in the next age:
1 Cor 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the LORD COME, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the heart: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Carnal men judge all the time, we see it every day in gossip alone, and we know it's not right, but think about if we have GOD'S WILL IN OUR HEARTS, our judgement changes, and we start to judge differently....

Just my thoughts Joey.

Marie


Hi Marie

I too know all about having certain truths that people need to hear, and not saying them.  But I think my reasoning may sometimes be cowardliness.  :-[  But I agree that sometimes you can tell when someone is just so set in their ways that it wouldn't even be worth trying to reason with them.

Here is another passage about judging:

1 Corinthinans 5
 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
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orion77

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2006, 12:24:49 AM »

Joey, this is an interesting topic.  The sword, tongue, and the words we use, have a connection.


(Psa 57:4)  My soul is among lions; I lie among those on fire, the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue is a sharp sword.

(Psa 64:2)  Hide me from the counsel of those who injure, from the tumult of evildoers,

(Psa 64:3)  who sharpen their tongue like a sword; they tread their arrows, a bitter word,

(Isa 66:16)  For by fire and by His sword Jehovah will execute judgment with all flesh; and the slain of Jehovah shall be many.


Words are like swords, which cut asunder, or they lead to peace.  The tongue is but a small member of the body, but what power it has.


(Heb 4:12)  For the Word of God is living, and powerfully working, and sharper than every two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of both soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart;


Knowing that God works in each life, but not at the same time.  I see where God has me now, and I remember where I was.  What a difference He has made.  And what a long way to go.  This whole process is what He has done, so how can we judge another, seeing it is His work to do as He pleases.

For me, it seems that suffering for His names sake, is what brings about discernment.  Amazing the good that comes out of hard times.  The end result, what the suffering teaches us is far greater than the pains while going through these hard times.

I am just so grateful that He came, not to condemn, but to save, and I think this is what we are to become.  So many around us are in the business of condemning, hurting and murdering by their words, yet this is not the example He set for us to follow.

God bless,

Gary
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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 12:25:37 AM »

Joey, that Arnold may be refering what you said in your last post.  Specifically he may have been making reference to the Catholics and Protestant and Calvinist thing.


It's not that I believe they'll go to a ''hell" because they taught it.  But they will be tormented by being led to believe that they'll go to this place of torment with which they've scared others.  For all the fear and torment they've caused others with this teaching, they will go through the same fear and torment of believing they will go there.  They will be told "I will judge you by your own words" and they will believe thatk means they will go to hell.  That will be torment in and of itself.
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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2006, 12:31:09 AM »

Joey, this is an interesting topic.  The sword, tongue, and the words we use, have a connection.


(Psa 57:4)  My soul is among lions; I lie among those on fire, the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue is a sharp sword.

(Psa 64:2)  Hide me from the counsel of those who injure, from the tumult of evildoers,

(Psa 64:3)  who sharpen their tongue like a sword; they tread their arrows, a bitter word,

(Isa 66:16)  For by fire and by His sword Jehovah will execute judgment with all flesh; and the slain of Jehovah shall be many.


Words are like swords, which cut asunder, or they lead to peace.  The tongue is but a small member of the body, but what power it has.


(Heb 4:12)  For the Word of God is living, and powerfully working, and sharper than every two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of both soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart;


Knowing that God works in each life, but not at the same time.  I see where God has me now, and I remember where I was.  What a difference He has made.  And what a long way to go.  This whole process is what He has done, so how can we judge another, seeing it is His work to do as He pleases.

For me, it seems that suffering for His names sake, is what brings about discernment.  Amazing the good that comes out of hard times.  The end result, what the suffering teaches us is far greater than the pains while going through these hard times.

I am just so grateful that He came, not to condemn, but to save, and I think this is what we are to become.  So many around us are in the business of condemning, hurting and murdering by their words, yet this is not the example He set for us to follow.

God bless,

Gary

I agree that we shouldn't be going around condemning others in a carnal, self righteous way.  However, we can discern the hearts of our brothers and if we look deeply at the spiritual message of the bible, we can begin to line up different passages of scripture with certian people's actions and attitudes. We can then have a better understanding of how to rebuke them, feeding their needed food allowance at the proper time.

 Remember, Jesus told us that we will know trees by their fruit.  But we first need the understanding to justly analyze people's fruits. 
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orion77

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Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 12:52:17 AM »

Yes, I agree Joey.

The vast majority of people want to live in harmony with each other, yet this majority have not learned the way of peace through Gods word.  Impossible thing to find real peace, outside of God, in this world, yet this is what we all have done, and have been guilty of.

That ole beast does not easily want to relinquish his control.  Worldly religion just adds wood to the fire, seeing where I was, and where God has me now.  Wow, big difference. 

I think we can all see a little better now being out of the deception that goes on in relligion.  I have had better discussions about God with publilcans and sinners, than so called religious people.  Maybe that is why Jesus spent so much time with them, just to get away from the hypocrisy and relax.

Again good topic, and here is to ya.  Been working hard all week and just opened a can of beer to relax a little.  Peace.

God bless,

Gary
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Dan

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2006, 12:46:05 PM »

1 Corinthinans 5
 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

Almost everyone looks at verses like this with fleshly understanding. They do the very same thing the scribes and pharisees did to the woman who was caught in adultry.
They believed she was a sinner and need to be Expelled.

Jesus told them that the one who is without sin can start the expelling.(cast the first stone)

Joh 8:9  But hearing, and being convicted by the conscience, they went out one by one, beginning from the older ones, until the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle.
Joh 8:10  And Jesus bending back up, and having seen no one but the woman, He said to her, Woman, where are those, the accusers of you? Did not one give judgment against you?
Joh 8:11  And she said, No one, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I judge you. Go, and sin no more.
Joh 8:12  Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, I am the Light of the world. The one following Me will in no way walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.


The only one who was qualified to expel or cast a stone or punish for sins done, chose to give mercy and love and forgiveness. This is the way those who are qualified to judge others will judge, not by "punishment, reproof, correction, lashes" but by mercy!

Rom 9:16  So, then, it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of the One showing mercy, of God

Rom 11:31  so also these now have disobeyed, so that they also may obtain mercy by your mercy.
Rom 11:32  For God shut up all into disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.

Luk 10:36  Who, then, of these three seems to you to have become a neighbor to the one having fallen among the plunderers?
Luk 10:37  And he said, The one doing the deed of mercy with him. Then Jesus said to him, Go, and you do likewise.

This is what it is to be Christ like, we forgive them because they dont know what they are doing!


"Expel the wicked man from among you" -- this is YOU

remember the scribes and pharisees went to expel the wicked woman only to be expelled themselves.

When Christ says to get the plank out of your eye FIRST.  He saying show mercy on others because you have sin also. no finger pointing, no expelling..

and if you are without sin (no more plank) you are to judge like Christ judged ..."Jesus said to her, Neither do I judge you"



Rom 3:10  according as it has been written, "There is not a righteous one, not even one!"
Rom 3:11  "There is not one understanding; there is not one seeking God."
Rom 3:12  All turned away, they became worthless together, not one is doing goodness, not so much as one!

Rom 3:23  for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24  being justified freely by His grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus


when we read the scriptures, those of the flesh are blinded and deaf. Those of the spirit see with their eyes and hear with their ears.

The flesh sees:  wrath, judgement, pain, retribution, punishment, you get what you deserve

The Spirit sees: Love, Forgiveness, Mercy, Grace




Luk 7:41  There were two debtors to a certain creditor: the one owed five hundred denarii and the other fifty.(one sinned more than the other)
Luk 7:42  But they not having a thing to pay, he freely forgave both. Then which of them do you say will love him most?
Luk 7:43  And answering, Simon said, I suppose the one to whom he freely forgave the most. And He said to him, You have judged rightly.




« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 12:47:32 PM by Dan »
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: Does Anyone Else See This?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2006, 01:04:23 PM »

....This is what it is to be Christ like, we forgive them because they dont know what they are doing!




This is what it is to be Christ like, we forgive them because they dont know what they are doing!


what about these verses????  not knowing what they are doing versus having known and rejected???     



Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom 2:1  Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Rom 3:12 All turned away, they became worthless together, not one is doing goodness, not so much as one!

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