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Does Anyone Else See This?
Joey Porter:
--- Quote from: arnold on July 28, 2006, 03:19:13 PM ---So Joey,
You then believe hell is forever?
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure how you got that out of my post, but no. Actually, I don't even believe "hell" is at all. At least, not the way it's taught in religion. But I do believe every man will reap what he has sown and those who have not forgiven as they have been forgiven will be turned over to the tormentors until they've paid back all they owe. (Matthew 18)
ned:
--- Quote from: Joey Porter on July 27, 2006, 02:23:05 AM ---I have been wondering about exactly how the judgment and the kingdom is going to take place, and just what our roles will be, and how it all correlates to our lives now.........But what about judging others? Should we be gaining better discernment when judging others in order to be fit for our part in the Kingdom? I'm not talking about going around condemning everyone, but just having the God given discernment to see what's in men's hearts. [
--- End quote ---
Hi Joey,
Just this morning I was studying about what my position should be on telling others the truth, and these verses I wrote down (which seem in-line with "judging") :
Prov 9:7-8 "He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame and he that rebuketh a wicked man getting himself a blot. Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee, rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
As happened to Paul in Acts:
Act 13:45 "But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming."
Jesus told us:
Matt7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
In hindsight, there were many times when I wanted to "cast my pearls before swine", but the words wouldn't come, or I would forget the verse I wanted to quote, and I reckon that was God-given discernment that this person shouldn't have these words.
I often wondered too about judging others because scripture often says "Judge not that ye be not judged", but I think maybe it refers to the carnal man which cannot judge others because of the BEAM in his own eye...however, once we are spiritually re-born, we judge others because Jesus is IN US, as he said:
John5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me".
Only when we have God's will in our hearts (Phil 2:13) can we rightly judge, whether now or in the next age:
1 Cor 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the LORD COME, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the heart: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Carnal men judge all the time, we see it every day in gossip alone, and we know it's not right, but think about if we have GOD'S WILL IN OUR HEARTS, our judgement changes, and we start to judge differently....
Just my thoughts Joey.
Marie
jenny06:
Joey, that Arnold may be refering what you said in your last post. Specifically he may have been making reference to the Catholics and Protestant and Calvinist thing.
--- Quote from: Joey Porter on July 27, 2006, 11:53:30 PM ---Thanks to everyone for the kind replies.
--- Quote from: angie on July 27, 2006, 09:31:01 PM ---Hi Joey,
Luke 19
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant!
This reminds me of minister, pastors and other theological 'experts' who use the word of god in a mistranslated, fit-the-doctirine way in propagating untruths about the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel, turning it into bad news of a hellish afterlife and Jesus as the saviour of only 'some'. What are these men, if only in their own minds, but the servants of God?
Luke 12
46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
Again with reference to what I said above and these scriptures:
Matt 7:22
Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?
and the answer:
23 Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
I don't know if this is correct, it's just that when I read it and thought about it, it's the scriptures came into my mind, even though I had to look up where they were.
thought provoking post tho!
--- End quote ---
Regarding those above verses - they remind me of how I used to think that the "wolves in sheep's clothing" would be people who deliberately and deceitfully preach false doctrine for evil motives. But now I realize that any of us could be wolves in sheep's clothing, and we probably have been at certain times in our lives. I'm sure that most of the wolves out there don't even realize they're wolves. They probably preach frequently about being aware of the wolves, not even realizing that they themsleves are wolves! Remember when Jesus called the Pharisees children of the devil. The scriptures certainly don't indicate that they were holding sceances and tattooing pentagrams on their bodies. No, they were shocked and apalled that He could make such a claim. But nevertheless, we know it's true because He said it.
As far as how the wolves will be judged - I have often wondered (not to get too negative or critical here), but I have often wondered if Calvinists will be judged by their own words and led to believe that they were one of the many who were predestined to burn in hell forever. Perhaps judgmental and self righteous protestants who love to condemn catholics to hell for their erroneous beliefs, perhaps those protestants will be led to believe that the catholics were right and they (the protestants) are on their way to hell. One verse that always stays in my mind:
James 2
13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful.
--- End quote ---
Joey Porter:
--- Quote from: Marie on July 28, 2006, 11:31:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: Joey Porter on July 27, 2006, 02:23:05 AM ---I have been wondering about exactly how the judgment and the kingdom is going to take place, and just what our roles will be, and how it all correlates to our lives now.........But what about judging others? Should we be gaining better discernment when judging others in order to be fit for our part in the Kingdom? I'm not talking about going around condemning everyone, but just having the God given discernment to see what's in men's hearts. [
--- End quote ---
Hi Joey,
Just this morning I was studying about what my position should be on telling others the truth, and these verses I wrote down (which seem in-line with "judging") :
Prov 9:7-8 "He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame and he that rebuketh a wicked man getting himself a blot. Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee, rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
As happened to Paul in Acts:
Act 13:45 "But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming."
Jesus told us:
Matt7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
In hindsight, there were many times when I wanted to "cast my pearls before swine", but the words wouldn't come, or I would forget the verse I wanted to quote, and I reckon that was God-given discernment that this person shouldn't have these words.
I often wondered too about judging others because scripture often says "Judge not that ye be not judged", but I think maybe it refers to the carnal man which cannot judge others because of the BEAM in his own eye...however, once we are spiritually re-born, we judge others because Jesus is IN US, as he said:
John5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me".
Only when we have God's will in our hearts (Phil 2:13) can we rightly judge, whether now or in the next age:
1 Cor 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the LORD COME, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the heart: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Carnal men judge all the time, we see it every day in gossip alone, and we know it's not right, but think about if we have GOD'S WILL IN OUR HEARTS, our judgement changes, and we start to judge differently....
Just my thoughts Joey.
Marie
--- End quote ---
Hi Marie
I too know all about having certain truths that people need to hear, and not saying them. But I think my reasoning may sometimes be cowardliness. :-[ But I agree that sometimes you can tell when someone is just so set in their ways that it wouldn't even be worth trying to reason with them.
Here is another passage about judging:
1 Corinthinans 5
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
orion77:
Joey, this is an interesting topic. The sword, tongue, and the words we use, have a connection.
(Psa 57:4) My soul is among lions; I lie among those on fire, the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue is a sharp sword.
(Psa 64:2) Hide me from the counsel of those who injure, from the tumult of evildoers,
(Psa 64:3) who sharpen their tongue like a sword; they tread their arrows, a bitter word,
(Isa 66:16) For by fire and by His sword Jehovah will execute judgment with all flesh; and the slain of Jehovah shall be many.
Words are like swords, which cut asunder, or they lead to peace. The tongue is but a small member of the body, but what power it has.
(Heb 4:12) For the Word of God is living, and powerfully working, and sharper than every two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of both soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart;
Knowing that God works in each life, but not at the same time. I see where God has me now, and I remember where I was. What a difference He has made. And what a long way to go. This whole process is what He has done, so how can we judge another, seeing it is His work to do as He pleases.
For me, it seems that suffering for His names sake, is what brings about discernment. Amazing the good that comes out of hard times. The end result, what the suffering teaches us is far greater than the pains while going through these hard times.
I am just so grateful that He came, not to condemn, but to save, and I think this is what we are to become. So many around us are in the business of condemning, hurting and murdering by their words, yet this is not the example He set for us to follow.
God bless,
Gary
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