Matthew 16:19"

[HoneyLamb56]

"and I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."  KJV 

Totally do no get what this verse is saying.  Would welcome some insight from the sages of BTer's.

[lilitalienboi16]

It might help to take a long at this from another angle, a more accurate literal translation may shed insight.

Matthew 16:19, "I will be giving you the keys of the kingdom of the heavens, and whatsoever you should be binding on the earth shall be those things having been bound in the heavens, and whatsoever you should be loosing on the earth shall be those having been loosed in the heavens."

- Concordant literal translation.

Notice the PAST TENSE of "HAVING BEEN BOUND" followed by "whatsoever you should be binding" (ACTIVE PRESENT). A most peculiar statement indeed. The same applies for the next part of the verse as well with the "loose."

I did a quick google search and the words binding and loosed are;

Here is something interesting;

Greek #630 "apoluo" which means to fully free, to relieve, release, dismiss; and is translated to forgive, let go, loose, send away, set at liberty, divorce, etc. "Apoluo" is a compound word and comes from #575 "apo" (off and away, denoting separation, departure) and #3089 "luo" (to loose, to break up, to destroy, to put off).

Now what we find in that verse is NOT apoluo BUT "apo" and "luo." At least according to my google search. I'm not at my regular computer so I can't confirm this with my esword though I suppose i could google the greek for this passage and verify those are indeed the two words used here for loose and bound.

I was able to find this online as well and it may have truth to it. It seems to be a reasonable perspective on the matter.

"Phillips translation says, "... whatever you forbid on earth will be what is forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be what is permitted in heaven."

The Phillips translation goes on to makes this comment, "There is a very curious Greek construction here, a simple future tense followed by the perfect participle passive ...the force of these sayings is that Jesus true disciples will be so led by the Spirit that they will be following the heavenly pattern. In other words, what they forbid or permit on earth will be consonant with the Divine rules."

Hope this helps, It's what I was able to gather with my non "sage" abilities.

If I was at my regular computer, I'd be tempted to search out more the usage of these two words and attempt to compare "spiritual with spiritual" because i'm sure there are other verses of scripture which would act as witnesses for us to better understand the passages. Maybe someone else has those passages or ideas.

God bless,

Alex

[mharrell08]

It means the truth shall make you free. Jesus asked His disciples who people said he was, and the people didn't know ("Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets" - Matt 16:14). Then He asked them who they thought He was and Peter answered correctly ("You are Christ, the Son of the living God" - Matt 16:16).

The Gospel, the Truth, can make one free (John 8:31-33). Jesus gives the Gospel to His disciples to make others free.


Marques

[Kat]

Here is yet another perspective.

Mat 16:19  and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou may loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.' (YLT)

Now compare that with what is said in John chapter 20.

John 20:21  Jesus, therefore, said to them again, `Peace to you; according as the Father hath sent Me, I also send you;'
v. 22  and this having said, He breathed on them, and saith to them, `Receive the Holy Spirit;
v. 23  if of any ye may loose the sins, they are loosed to them; if of any ye may retain (the sins), they (the sins) have been retained.'  (YLT)

"According as the Father sent Christ" to forgive/remit sins... likewise "I also send you" (also John 17:18). I believe it is the 'sins' which they were instructed to forgive in this passage. So could Jesus have been speaking of healing in that verse?

Mark 2:9  Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, "Arise, take up your bed and walk'?
v. 10  But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"--He said to the paralytic,
v. 11  "I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house."

Was Jesus saying here that healing is forgiving sin? And Jesus did command them to "heal the sick."

Luke 10:8  Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.
v. 9  And heal the sick there, and say to them, "The kingdom of God has come near to you.'

We know that the Apostles did heal many people during their ministry.

Acts 5:15  so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
v. 16  Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.

Acts 28:8  And it happened that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and dysentery. Paul went in to him and prayed, and he laid his hands on him and healed him.
v. 9  So when this was done, the rest of those on the island who had diseases also came and were healed.

Mark 11:24  Therefore I say to you, All things, whatever you ask, praying, believe that you shall receive them, and it will be to you.
v. 25  And when you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive it so that also your Father in Heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
v. 26  But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in Heaven forgive your trespasses.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

"and I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

I surrender all 100%..............."...taking LEAVE of all his possessions."  Jesus is not telling them in this case, to give away, or sell all that they possess,
but rather to be willing to forsake (maybe for just awhile) the pleasures of many possessions.Didn't Peter say to Christ
that "...we have FORSAKEN ALL" in Matt. 19:27?  What was Jesus' reply?  He said they would sit on twelve thrones
judging the twelve tribes of Israel. L Ray Smith Ref : http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12757.msg111880.html#msg111880


I say your full Name's

Repent for forgiveness of sins...............The reason that I want to talk about repentance is because repentance is a major door to understanding. I tried to understand many things before I truly repented.

Now, we repent in increments.Repent: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Ray_Repent 1.mp3 Transcript of a talk by L. Ray Smith about Repentance


7 x 70  70 x 7...................I have always said that God's Spirit is God. That what God does through His spirit is GOD DOING IT, and not someone else. The Spirit of God is not SOME OTHER PERSON, but God Himself.  L Ray Smith http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?action=search2


in correct Hebraic name/s

Abba/Daddy Yahweh/Yhwh Elohim Yeshua Yahshua Yehoshua Ha Mashiach Joshua .....................Joshua and Jesus are the same name, and that's why in the book of Acts you have it talking about Jesus, being back in the OT. No it's not Jesus, it's Joshua. That is a blatant error in the KJ, it has Jesus there, when it's suppose to be Joshua.

  Yehoshua comes from YWV. The Y is from the Hebrew 'ye,' but in Greek it becomes 'ih' it's pronounced 'eeay.' V is the Hebrew is 'shin' which is the sh sound, but in Greek you just make it 's,' they have no sh sound. So you have 'ihs' and it's ye-sh. The W is 'vav' it's a u sound and in Greek it becomes 'ou.' So you have yehowshuwa yeh-ho-shoo-a or yehoshua, it almost the same thing. The 'ye' is a softer sound, but some say it is pronounced 'ya' with a j sound.  Transcripts of Ray's Audio's and More Teachings / Re: Nashville Conference 2007


"Let this mind be in you, which was [is] also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant [slave], and was made in the likeness of men"(Phil. 2:5-7).

Now here we learn a little more of what this is about. When it says "mind" it is the disposition of God Himself.
Transcripts of Ray's Audio's and More Teachings / Re: Nashville Conference 2007 Audio 4/page 2

Lip service, can not bind on earth or loose in heaven  ~ 


Arc

[John from Kentucky]

Further perspective.

Three Apostles, Peter and the two brothers James and John, were set apart from the other Apostles.

It was these three who witnessed the vision of the Transfiguration of Jesus on the mount.

It was these three who Jesus took to be with Him the night before His death.

Peter is always listed first of the three.  James was murdered soon after Jesus' death and resurrection; he was the first Apostle killed.

As the leader, Peter was used to gather together the New Testament scriptures, which he began to do before his death in the early to mid 60's A.D.  Paul sent Peter certain of his letters, which Peter declared to be scriptures, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  2 Peter 3:16.

Paul was killed first, then Peter.  It was left to John then to complete and assemble the New Testament scriptures, which he did by approximately the end of the 1st century A.D.

The keys of the Kingdom---the New Testament scriptures, which explain Old Covenant scriptures--which together are the written Word of God, which reveals Jesus the Word, Who reveals and witnesses the Truth of God.

[Rex8]

Before Yahshua stated this he told Peter His FATHER had revealed to him who he was.....and before that to beware of the leavened teaching of the pharisees and scribes.
This is a blatant point to what the religious have not perceived for millinea.They search the scriptures thinking in THEM they have life yet fail to come to Yahshua of whom they are written.It is right in front of them yet they can't see it.

The pharisee wanted to see a sign from heaven that harmonized with their religion.The disciples failed to see that was leaven so Yahshua asked them point blank... WHO am I.None of them knew ..including Peter.Did Peter search the scriptures to say what he said.......

The Pharisees and scribe question was on the same line as ... "when does the Kingdom of God come"...Yahshua told them.. without observation because it is IN your midst.

These answers have been laid at the feet of everyone who reads the scripture yet they continue to search the scriptures thinking that IN them they will find life.Yahshua clearly said it is IN your midst and Peter HEARD it from the Father.That is BINDING and loosing.THAT is the Keys to the Kingdom....that is HOW to GET IN.

Faith comes by HEARING (perception) and hearing by the word of God....the religious have turned that into the leaven of the pharisees.The truth is....The Father "unveils" it.It is ALWAYS there.He only reveals it to whom he wills.We can search all we like but will never find it even though we think we have.

The Pharisees and scribe thought they were clever and wise because they could decipher  the scriptures yet Yahshua said they were BLIND.He later said unless you change and become as a little child you CANNOT enter in.He clearly told Peter it is ALL revealed through God the Father TALKING directly to YOU..that is Abba Father.....that is binding and loosing..not vain heathen incantations of "In the NAME of Jesus I command you to be BOUND.......blah blah blah"..religious foolishness.

Yahshua  rightly said "oh ye of little faith did you not know I wasn't talking of "bread".The foundation "stone" is revelation from the Father...period.There is no need to search any further.When God wants you to know something it will be known ..and if not ...it won't...bind and loose.

[Gina]

Hello,

This is from a post from Heidi from a while back:

Heidi, just a little bit extra.  The ISV and Young's Literal translation agree more with the CLV.

"Verily, I am saying to you, Whatsoever you should be binding on the earth shall be those things having been bound in the heavens, and whatsoever you should be loosing on the earth shall be those loose in heaven."

The KJV implies that the binding and loosing begins on earth.  The others say that what is bound or loosed on earth has already been bound or loosed in heaven.  Doesn't that match the model prayer, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it IS in heaven."  It's about, then, being in agreement with God, not (as you already understand) in changing God's mind.

As I said, just a bit extra.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9214.msg77263.html#msg77263

I could be mistaken but, I thought I recalled Ray saying the same thing at one point, but I don't have the time right now to go searching for where he said that.

The only thing I found regarding the subject of being "already bound" is from this email exchange:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14610.msg129272.html#msg129272

Anyway, that's all I got.   

I enjoyed reading the other responses.

Gina

[HoneyLamb56]

Thank you all for your responses.   

Alex, it does make it a little clearer when the tense is changed; I still don't totally grasp the meaning after reading all the responses so I will continue to meditate on it until God turns my light on 


Diane

[Gina]

Thank you all for your responses.   

Alex, it does make it a little clearer when the tense is changed; I still don't totally grasp the meaning after reading all the responses so I will continue to meditate on it until God turns my light on 


Diane

I second that.

[Dave in Tenn]

The translation in the 'literal' versions is more accurate in modern English:  What is loosed/bound on earth is what is loosed/bound in heaven.

Mat 16:19  And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven. And whatever you bind on earth shall occur, having been bound in Heaven. And whatever you may loose on the earth shall be, having been loosed in Heaven. LITV

Mat 16:19  and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.' YLT

Mat 16:19 I will be giving you the keys of the kingdom of the heavens, and whatsoever you should be binding on the earth shall be those things having been bound in the heavens, and whatsoever you should be loosing on the earth, shall be those having been loosed in the heavens."  CLV


I think even the KJV has it 'right' in a sense, but puts it in an archaic usage that doesn't easily flow today.  Add to that the confusion of careless preachers, which obscures it more.

Could be this is an example of Matthew 16:19?  I think these two verses go together very well. 

1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  (LITV)

The whole chapter is an example of this verse in real-life action, I think.