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I need an educated teacher
Nickreading1984:
So here's some of the questions I need answered
So, I brought universalism before Darwin Fish and he shot it down pretty quick. I wanted to establish contact with one of his students because his videos tend to be a lot longer than they need to be. I figured I'd just run this stuff past you in point form. I'd appreciate a VERY straight-forward answer. Ray's videos and such wander all over the place.
1) In Ray's video series "Do you fear God?" He concludes by saying, repeatedly, that he does not. Isn't that blasphemy? Isn't it repeatedly stated in the scriptures that one should fear God? Fear God and keep his commandments for this is man's all?
-2 corinthians 5:11
"Knowing, therefore the TERROR of the lord"
2) What do you do with verses like this:
- Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake
Some to everlasting life
Others to shame and everlasting contempt
Doesn't everlasting mean it'll last forever?
-Revelation 22:11
He who is unjust, let him be unjust still
-Matthew 25:41
"Into the ETERNAL fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
-Jeremiah 20:11
"Their everlasting confusion will NEVER be forgotten"
3) Ray says that people will be able to repent while experiencing "Hell". I think I've found at least one verse that says otherwise
-Proverbs 1:28
"Then they will call on me, but I will not answer"
It seems wisdom is saying that there will be no repentance in Hell
4) About Lazarus and the rich man:
Ray says it's part of a five-part-parable; but I've heard it argued that
a) even if it were a parable, Parables are true stories that have parallel meanings. If Jesus says that there was a certain rich man and someone says "No there wasn't" you're calling Christ a liar.
b) It actually wasn't part of a 5-part parable. He told a couple parables to the masses and then, to his disciples and to the pharisees, he talked about the law and the prophets and then talked about divorce. What was parabolic about that?
5) explain the whole "aonian" thing as briefly as possible. the following is from atruechurch.info How can you read that and tell me that the torment won't be eternal?
They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Some may want to argue over words (1 Timothy 6:4) and argue against the words "forever and ever." The Greek words translated, "forever and ever," in Revelation 20:10 are tous aiônas tôn aiônôn. These same exact words are used for God's eternal glory (Galatians 1:5; Philippians 4:20; 1 Timothy 1:17; 2 Timothy 4:18; Hebrews 13:21; 1 Peter 4:11; 5:11; Revelation 1:6; 5:13; 7:12), for Christ's eternal living, never ever to experience death again (Revelation 1:18), for God who lives forever and ever (Revelation 4:9-10; 10:6; 15:7), for Christ's eternal reign (Revelation 11:15), for eternal smoke (Revelation 19:3), and the eternal reign of the saints (Revelation 22:5).
-How can you read that and tell me that the torment won't be eternal?
Kat:
Hi Nickreading1984,
Question number 1) 1John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
2) Here is one of Ray's emails (there are numerous other on this topic): It matters not what "virtually all Greeks" believe today regarding ancient words of the past. The question is, How were they used and understood at the time of the writing of the Greek Scriptures?
Is there anywhere in Classical Greek literature, for example, where "aion" and later "aionios" meant "eternity" or "endless time?" No, no there isn't. People send me "translations" of Classical Greek in which the Greek "aionios" is translated into the English "eternal" as PROOF that this word means and MEANT eternal in the past. Oh really? You might just as well quote to me the the King James Bible if one thinks such nonsense is proof. They try to show that the Greek gods were "eternal." Excuse me, but THE GREEK GODS COULD DIE!! Didn't Zeus KILL his own father?
Or better yet is when someone shows me a modern dictionary definition of such words as "timeless" or "ageless" and suggests that these words mean eternity. Where did these dictionaries get their definitions for such words? From THEOLOGIANS, that's where. And these are the ONLY cases in dictionaries where the suffix "-less" means "more." "Ageless" is LESS THAN AN AGE, not eternity. Something that is "timeless" is not eternal, but rather HAS NO TIME. And this is because "No adjective can take on a different or greater meaning that the noun from which it is derived." An "age" is never suggested to be "eternity" in Scriptures. In fact, the very concept of eternity is foreign to the Scriptures. Instead we have phrases such as "has NO END," and "immortality."
As for there being no Greek scholars who believe that aions are not ages, but eternity, just read my paper on "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural" in which I cite many Greek and Hebrew Scholars who understand perfectly well that aionios never meant "eternal" in ancient Greece. http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3195.0.html
3) Here is another translation (GNB): Pro 1:28 Then you will call for wisdom, but I (wisdom) will not answer. You may look for me (wisdom) everywhere, but you will not find me (wisdom).
4) Mat 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
5) Here is another email: Yes, of course, I knew exactly what Mr. Hagee meant by "forever and forever and forever." He is saying that when the Bible says "forever," it really means: "forever and forever and forever and forever and forever and forever....eternally." But that is not what "forever" means in the Bible. If "forever" means eternity, then what sense is there in adding eternities on top of eternities? There is only one eternity. There is no such phrase as "for ever and ever" in the Greek manuscripts. It is "aions of the aions" or "ages of the ages." It is not ages "and" ages, nor is it ages "upon" ages, nor is it ages "after" ages. It is genitive and it must be translated "ages OF the ages," which has absolutely nothing to do with eternity.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7863.0.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
Less time copying and pasting from other websites and more time actually reading what is written here, in the Word of God and praying to the Lord for eyes and ears.
God be with you,
Alex
Ian 155:
Hey Nick - We all had similar questions,
1] dont be offended if answers come across a 'little in your face" this is going to stop your quest for the truth
2] go and check out the papers that Ray Has written
3] and keep asking and submitting questions
5]You did not arrive by accident
regarding you questions, Kat summarized all the answers, now you need to go and study them - Ask the lord to open up the scriptures to you as the disciples did
be blessed as you discover the truths of Gods word
Nickreading1984:
Ian 155: I'm not offended by things coming across as in my face. I'm talking with Darwin fish, for Zeus' sake. I'd really just like it if one of Ray's personal students could get in touch with me via E-mail.
Kat: The other translation of not finding wisdom anywhere doesn't make wisdom any less elusive after destruction and calamity (which I'm told means Hell). Also, if it means "Ages of the ages" what the heck does that mean?
Everyone: thanks for your help. I'm gonna need loads more.
-Nick
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