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Author Topic: I need an educated teacher  (Read 5432 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2013, 02:20:02 PM »

I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire

-Nick

Nick,

What is your Father like.  If he is/was a harsh and evil man I suppose it's understandable that you might think that God is the same.  If you have a good father ask yourself if your dad wants you to be afraid of him or if your old enough to be a father yourself would you want your son to be afraid of you?  And would you want your son to respect and obey you only because he felt you were going to take a belt to him and whip him unmercifully?  If not, then how could you think a perfect and loving God (Who states in his written word that 'God is love' and 'Love never fails') would want you to obey and worship him because your terrified to death of him?  See what this 'hell' teaching of the church has done to you?

You simply have not lived long enough to fear God out of what He can do and save you from.

Sooner or later a loved one or yourself will be in great distress then you will understand.

This probably will not make sense, but I fear, respect, and am in awe of God but I am not afraid of Him.
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Samson

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2013, 02:21:26 PM »

Thanks, guys. but, about the fear thing. Phil 2:12 says that believers should work out their salvation with fear and trembling. I know perfect love drives out all fear, but Ecc 12:13 still COMMMANDS to fear God and keep his commandments.

I can't help but think I'm talking to a bunch of vipers, of whom it can be said that there is no fear of God before their eyes (romans 3:18)

I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire

-Nick


Hi Nick,

Everybody did an excellent Job in explaining my favorite Bible related Topic regarding Aion and it's derivatives Aions(Ages or Eons) and most importantly Aionios, the adjective of Aion which literally means pertaining or belonging to the Ages. An Adjective can't be defined with a totally different meaning than the Noun it's derived from, it would be grammatically incorrect. Alexander Thomson, a Scottish/Irish inventor who happens to be a Greek Etymologist/Linguist that did a thorough word study on Aion & it's derivatives; Aions & Aionios. He included the Latin Aeternus & Seculum in His study and proved conclusively that none of these words meant endless. Ray quotes from Him in His paper entitled: Is Everlasting Scriptural. Ray quotes from Alexander Thomson(s) fine Paper: Whence Eternity ! How Eternity slipped In, I've read that several times and have no doubt that Aionios, the adjective of Aion never means " Endless."

Some quotes from Ray's paper:

Comment: The word "eternal" comes from the Latin "aeternum" which in the first century meant virtually the same as the word "seculum," and in fact, Jerome sometimes rendered "aion" aeternus, and in other places he renders "aion" as seculum. They were considered virtually synonyms. Here is the how Latin dictionaries define, seculum—"a generation, an age, the world, the times, the SPIRIT OF THE TIMES, and a period of a hundred years." (Caps mine).

Trajan, Roman emperor from 98 to 117 AD spoke of seculum as the time he lived in. Tertullian, born about 160 AD refers to "a mighty shock impending over the entire world, and the conclusion of the seculum itself." Lactantius, born about 260 AD speaks of the "learned ones of this seculum." Eusebius, early Church historian, born about 265 AD gives the account of a martyrs’ trail in which Speratus, the martyrs’ leader, replied, "The empire of this seculum [world] I do not recognize."

We read this from the work, Whence Eternity by Scholar and Expert in the Greek language, Alexander Thomson, "Long ago in Rome, periodic games were held, which were called ‘secular’ games. Herodian, the historian, writing in Greek about the end of the second or beginning of the third century, call these ‘eonian’ games. In no sense were the games eternal. Eonian did not mean eternal any more than a seculum meant eternity" (Page 12).

Comment: Yes, "IF" indeed. Let me assure you that "aionios" did not mean "eternal" by the people that "used the language when the Bible was written." If that were true, there would have been no reason whatsoever for Justinian to call a council in 540 wherein he labored to add the word "endless" to the Greek "aionios" life. He knew and conceded that "aionios" was not endless, and so insisted in the Church inserting the word "endless" before it to signify "endless life" and "endless punishment."

Also Nick, you quoted Philippians. 2:12, but forgot to complete the thought expressed in it's fullness by not quoting verse 13, found below.

Php 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 The fear and trembling in verse 12 is resulting from God working in us. Look at what Paul experienced after God used His Spirit to work in Paul after His conversion, the trials and suffering were not pleasant.

Kind Regards, Samson.

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Rhys

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2013, 02:17:15 AM »

Thanks, guys. but, about the fear thing. Phil 2:12 says that believers should work out their salvation with fear and trembling. I know perfect love drives out all fear, but Ecc 12:13 still COMMMANDS to fear God and keep his commandments.

I can't help but think I'm talking to a bunch of vipers, of whom it can be said that there is no fear of God before their eyes (romans 3:18)

I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire

-Nick

Hi Nick

God's word shows there is no Hell and there is plenty that Ray says about it as well.

From my own experience through life I never really believed in hell when preached in church. I just bought into it as you were suppose to. I've always struggled with the fact that God would accept me and not everyone else. When I sinned and fell short of the mark He was always there to pick me up and I felt His love so strong. It's the I didn't choose Him He has choosen me. So why does He do that for me and not everyone. The thing is he will do it for all. What kind of God would He be otherwise, not a very great one I would say. Seems absurd to me that He would just pick out certain ones for no good reason. Why pick out me I'm definitely nothing special and I know that all to well. I've come to that truth that He will save all because He loves all and nothing will stop Him from doing His will. I've come to know and understand God's love more and more over the last few years and it's amazing how big and vast it is. God is so so so GREAT and when you see it everything falls into place.

God bless you my friend and keep looking to Him and seek Him. You will get there one day as we will all. He's been so loving to me and He will be to you to.

Rhys
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I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

ICXCNIKA

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2013, 04:28:09 AM »

He's been so loving to me and He will be to you to.

If ever there were a simple, concise, and yet, profound way to explain  "The Good News", that would be it! Thank you Rhys.
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Nickreading1984

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2013, 06:24:19 PM »

well, guys, I'm still reading LOF, but the poblem I have with a lot of these rationales is this:

No, it doesn't make sense to me that God would just pick some for eternal life and others for eternal torture. Yes, it seems horrible. But our standard is not God's. IF (notice I say IF) God says that's what he's gonna do; we gotta love it or burn. It's that simple.

So, while I can certainly relate to people saying that God must not send people to Hell if he loves everyone, that's leaning on your own understanding. Cold, hard scripture is all I'm interested in. Thanks.

-Nick
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2013, 07:22:06 PM »

The LOF series is full of scripture.  As others have said, study them.  Reasoning FROM scripture serves a good purpose in causing the questions, but Scripture itself gives the answers.  It's not given to everybody to believe them, however.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

ICXCNIKA

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2013, 08:46:59 PM »

well, guys, I'm still reading LOF, but the poblem I have with a lot of these rationales is this:

No, it doesn't make sense to me that God would just pick some for eternal life and others for eternal torture. Yes, it seems horrible. But our standard is not God's. IF (notice I say IF) God says that's what he's gonna do; we gotta love it or burn. It's that simple.

So, while I can certainly relate to people saying that God must not send people to Hell if he loves everyone, that's leaning on your own understanding. Cold, hard scripture is all I'm interested in. Thanks.

-Nick

 ::)  Stop trying to rationalize The SCRIPTURES against your current understanding, and let THEM teach you. Nick, you're not interested in what the Scriptures say! You are credulously fooled by thinking the WORD OF GOD is written in English, and you are frustrated, by trying to decipher  HIS MYSTERIES within the confines and hard-lines of the English BIBLE alone. The BIBLE was not written in Old English! ...Well good-luck Nick. I do hope you continue your search. But, until your heart is humbled, Knowledge and Wisdom can not take root, and of course ...even this is, will be, ...in HIS time.   :)

 
IF (notice I say IF) God says that's what he's gonna do; we gotta love it or burn. It's that simple.

Nick, many people believe that "spare the rod, spoil the child," is speaking of disciplining your children with a cane, belt or some such "beating" device! But, it isn't. A shepherd's rod is used to direct, lead as in "lead by example", or to put it plainly... To Guide. So, is HIS purpose for judgement really, truly going to be based on "love it or burn"?.........is it "that simple"?  Just finish reading the LOF series.  ;)    Should a "good and loving" parent beat the-hell-out-of their child, simply to enforce their dominion over them? Or, is it possible that a GOOD parent will simply LOVE and GUIDE their offspring, and when needed, CORRECT (Chastise) them. Our FATHER will wash the hell out of all of us for sure, but in (spiritual) fire and with (spiritual) brimstone. But, HIS JUDGEMENTS serves a purpose (torture is the antithesis to MERCY!) Now, it is that simple.


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longhorn

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2013, 08:58:43 PM »

Ny head really did explode this time.  I'm not kidding.

Longhorn
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ICXCNIKA

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2013, 01:50:21 AM »

Ny head really did explode this time.  I'm not kidding.

Longhorn

Who's head in New York exploded?   ;)
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cjwood

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2013, 04:49:46 AM »

that's longhorn's head that exploded.  again.  he's not from n.y.  he from texas.  the "ny" should be "my".  but, longhorn always gets it back together again.  just like humpty dumpty.  kind of like his brain swirled trying to comprehend what nick was saying, until his head just exploded.

we love our longhorn. 

claudia
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2013, 09:34:52 PM »

lol you guys are a riot

<3 u
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

cjwood

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 01:06:33 AM »


... But, HIS JUDGEMENTS serves a purpose (torture is the antithesis to MERCY!) Now, it is that simple.



thank you metamatic for your post response.  i especially like the words you put in parenthesis which i've highlighted in blue above.

God's mercy abides for ever.  even into the next age and until all have been saved.  any torturing of people on His part would be going against His own character. 

claudia

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sunsetdramaking

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2013, 08:42:19 AM »


... But, HIS JUDGEMENTS serves a purpose (torture is the antithesis to MERCY!) Now, it is that simple.



thank you metamatic for your post response.  i especially like the words you put in parenthesis which i've highlighted in blue above.

God's mercy abides for ever.  even into the next age and until all have been saved.  any torturing of people on His part would be going against His own character. 

claudia

Amen to that!  I'm so grateful that such a schizophrenic God (that overwhelms and replaces any love with torture and spite) is a LIE. Such an unmerciful and hateful God who despises people more than we could ever manage to sink in our own hearts enough to hate (aka: eternally)" DOES NOT EXIST (except in the carnal minds of spiritually depraved individuals/churches)

How simple it is to see, how simple that is once God opens your eyes and grants such profound life changing truth:

Christ taught to LOVE and DO GOOD to our enemies, so I can't help but KNOW with conviction (by studying his actions and teachings in His Word), that He won't be the ultimate hypocrite like these fools would make him out to be in the. Woe to their blasphemy and their coming judgment for teachings such things going against Christ's own teachings about doing Good. Yet, those that are destined to die still teaching such nonsense, God won't torture forever (what an amazing God!), they will ultimately be cleansed and forgiven, but I can't imagine how awful that judgement is going to be, because those that are most sincere about defaming God so severely, will learn just how Just and Measured God's judgements are, but at the same time how terrible a balanced judgement still is...even though many stripes can never be "unlimited" striped (thankfully our true God does have a VALID sense of justice), stomping all over the character of God by turning him into a tyrannical monster, and rolling your eyes and His absolute capability to accomplish ALL He wills and desires is pure folly and I'm so grateful and don't blasphemy God in this way anymore by having such awful beliefs in my heart.  (God wills and desires to save all men, to have all come to the knowledge of the truth, to save sinners, to save the world, etc..) and by His own Word, HE WILL HAVE IT COME TO PASS. PERIOD.

I say anyone who tries to rationalize around this simple truth is a liar and so they will "have their part" in the Lake of Fire...I will trust in God's word and His perfect character and capability more than any "religion" or "doctrine" and if somehow against all odds I'm wrong on this point, then I will fail on the side of love-enduring, mercy never ending, and TOTAL victory with Christ's sacrifice; completely actualized for everyone and everything, and if the gates of heaven should somehow be closed against any sincerely seeking soul, and I somehow still have been blessed enough (in light of individual sincerity perhaps?) "make it in", then I'll be the first one sticking my "foot" out to keep those gates swung open a bit longer, and all theology, beliefs, faiths, and knowledge that separate anyone from the Love of God (ultimately speaking) and the Love I have in me from God as He commanded, be DAMNED.

1Cr 13:2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

So HAVE LOVE, and know that the difference between LOVE and HATE is only the biggest difference you can conceptualize, at least it is between REAL LOVE (aka forgiveness, mercy, unconditional, etc...) and the opposite, which is hatred, ETERNALLY. (aka torture for the sake of torture, not correction), it blows my mind that there is even a way to conflate the two concepts, it just amazes me to see now how twisted the scriptures can be for a person who in their mind and heart has already settled in bed comfortably embracing their hatred of others sooo absolutely, so much that it takes place over ever needing to love them as Christ would have us do. So if you must uphold your "knowledge" of eternal hell and judgment so high, know this: YOU ARE NOTHING, as scripture declares it.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 08:46:37 AM by sunsetdramaking »
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Rhys

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2013, 06:06:09 PM »

Nicely said there Sunsetdramaking(Brett). Thanks for openess in the way you shared, it blesses me so much to hear stuff like you just mentioned.

That sort of love is something I've been thinking a lot about recently. Especially in the sense of how we relate to another.

John 13:34  I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another.
John 13:35  By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another.


God puts a love in my heart for people and I shouldn't be afraid to show that love. He gives it to us to give it out and so freely you have received so freely give. It's such a beautiful awesome love that you just can't keep it to yourself and when you give it, it feels so good. It's love straight from the heart of God and does so much good to those around us even if they don't thank you for it. It's who God is and shows that we are His disciples. Even when I go through my trials I still give it out and it does me good to, even if I think well what about me, who's there for me and often there is no one. I then think wow! God is using me to show His love to others in a way I never thought I could because it's Him working through me and I'm so blessed that He would use me in anyway.

I go down the track sometimes of getting angry with people and start getting hatred in me. Less and less these days. It seems so pointless to act like this, it steals my joy and never helps those around me. Why ever do it?

Luk 6:31  And as you desire that men should do to you, you do also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32  For if you love those who love you, what thanks do you have? For sinners also love those who love them.
Luk 6:33  And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks do you have? For sinners also do the same.
Luk 6:34  And if you lend to those of whom you hope to receive, what thanks do you have? For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35  But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return. And your reward shall be great, and you shall be the sons of the Highest. For He is kind to the unthankful and to the evil.


So God wants us to do what the verses say above. So lets do it then and love our enemies. What a most evil thought it is that God would expect us to do this but won't do it Himself. It's just vile. God is so much more love than what He puts in me. He wants me to use the love He gives for good. He is perfect love so how much more good is He going to do for all people. When He fills with the love that I'm talking about then you will know and struggle to ever doubt again. God is so great and loving we often just don't see it. He has filled me with such wonderful love at times I just contain it and I truly say Wow! what love is this? It's just the best and I don't find anything that even comes close to matching it. It sets me free and I can be everything the God wants me to be despite anything that I am going through.

Let us rejoice in our God who will not fail us and will save all. One day we will all be surrounded in such awesome beautiful love. It makes me cry thinking about it. It's who God is and one day we will all it see it and be astonished at such beauty.

I'll finish with this verse:

Rom 12:10  In your brotherly love, unto one another, being tenderly affectioned, in honour, unto one another, giving preference;

May God's so perfect, wonderful, awesome love fill each one of you too overflowing.

Rhys
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I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

ICXCNIKA

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2013, 07:27:29 PM »

Sunsetdramaking, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON!
Knuckleheads like darwin fish, and fred phelps (westboro) have nothing of worth to offer, to "any kind" of Christian! GOD'S Name is blasphemed by these unstable minds, and they will find themselves facing the terrible wrath of GOD for attributing such a vicious character to The PRINCE OF PEACE,  But unlike they, GOD is MERCIFUL and this "terrible wrath" will be from the LOVING heart of GOD, and ultimately be for the purpose of chastisement (i.e., correction). darwin fish, and fred phelps are small men; small in mind and small in heart—who serve a dark, imaginary and vile despot. Our FATHER is JUST ( 2 Thessalonians 1:6) and HE is LIGHT (1 John 1:5)

Christendom is an old circus, with a multitude of different acts; all of 'em, performing with clowns.

"For, many, will come upon my name, saying—I, am the Christ,—and will, deceive many." (Matthew 24:5)

It's unbelievable that mere humans could honestly believe that THE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING would need our money as tbn, creflo dollar, joyce meyer, etc insist that HE does! You can guarantee that all of those lying used car salesmen avoid 1 Timothy 3:3
 
Equally pathetic are those who confess to have a faith and hope in JESUS CHRIST, but then believe that HE would want HIS GOOD NEWS watered down into these generic oprah approved, self-realization type motivational speeches and positive thinking books! What kind of fluffy "purpose driven" nonsense is that garbage? It isn't even a whiff of the milk of GOD'S WORD! "But they're not greedy like the prosperity hucksters, are they?"  :-\  Well, let's see... joel osteen, rick warren and rest of these "christian" deepak cobras are nothing more or less than dyed-in-the-wool humanist. These charismatic "self-help gurus" need to conform to CHRIST (Romans 12:2) and drop their "well-being" tomfoolery! But,  it's not in their best interest to stray from what it's ALL really about...
The Financial-Driven Life ...So, not so different from the used car sales men, eh?   ;)

Joyce and Joel skip along—hand 'n hand—happily to the Bank of Prosperity, whistling "When The Saints Go Marching In"
...Of course all of this is done with a positive attitude that anticipates a huge withdrawal!  ;)
Like Ray said "It's only about the money!"
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GaryK

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2013, 08:05:55 PM »

While we're cracking bones of those 'mere humans' who are so easily deceived or being the great deceivers, remember, most if not all of us were there before.  And that's why we're here now.  But you never know, some may go back.  Rhys, you have a thread on that very subject.   Never say never.  Your will is not in control.

As for what started this whole thread about going head to head and 'debating' the grand deceivers, hopefully we've all learned by now that 'debating'......... if put on a scale........ it would be on a sliding scale of -- idiot>>> to <<< fool foolishness --- and we've all been somewhere on that scale at some point.   

And besides, Ray has said it many times:

Ecclesiastes 3:1
New International Version (NIV)

A3 There is a time for everything,
    and a season for every activity under the heavens:

Cross references:Ecclesiastes 3:1 : ver 11, 17; Ecc 8:6
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sunsetdramaking

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2013, 08:37:34 PM »

While we're cracking bones of those 'mere humans' who are so easily deceived or being the great deceivers, remember, most if not all of us were there before.  And that's why we're here now.  But you never know, some may go back.  Rhys, you have a thread on that very subject.   Never say never.  Your will is not in control.

As for what started this whole thread about going head to head and 'debating' the grand deceivers, hopefully we've all learned by now that 'debating'......... if put on a scale........ it would be on a sliding scale of -- idiot>>> to <<< fool foolishness --- and we've all been somewhere on that scale at some point.   

And besides, Ray has said it many times:

Ecclesiastes 3:1
New International Version (NIV)

A3 There is a time for everything,
    and a season for every activity under the heavens:

Cross references:Ecclesiastes 3:1 : ver 11, 17; Ecc 8:6

Absolutely, this isn't under "our control" of course; not at all!!  That's the ENTIRE POINT in fact, but oh' how the Man of Sin (and his "free will") fights bloody tooth and nail for dominion over the throne (of the heart) in a person, and will do anything to not be usurped, not even by the very Words of Christ that contradict that man of sin.
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Greatest I am

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2013, 08:55:59 AM »

Ian 155: I'm not offended by things coming across as in my face. I'm talking with Darwin fish, for Zeus' sake. I'd really just like it if one of Ray's personal students could get in touch with me via E-mail.

Kat: The other translation of not finding wisdom anywhere doesn't make wisdom any less elusive after destruction and calamity (which I'm told means Hell). Also, if it means "Ages of the ages" what the heck does that mean?

Everyone: thanks for your help. I'm gonna need loads more.

-Nick

Not finding wisdom anywhere??

Enlightenment is all around us my friend.

God tells us in Genesis who the wisest of all the animals is and that view is basically identical to most of the older religions from which it came. The serpent is used as that icon.

Think esoteric and Kundalini.

Regards
DL
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ICXCNIKA

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Re: I need an educated teacher
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2013, 07:37:58 PM »

I NEED AN EDUCATED TEACHER
Isaiah 8:20   Matthew 7:15   Matthew 23:27   Matthew 24:4   Luke 21:8   Luke 21:8
1 Corinthians 2:13-14   1 Thessalonians 5:21   2 Timothy 3:5




While we're cracking bones of those 'mere humans' who are so easily deceived or being the great deceivers, remember, most if not all of us were there before.

All that you wrote is true, thank you Horseman.  :)  But, I must stress that what I wrote is directed solely against those who fleece their flock and those who blaspheme the Name (the very character) of GOD ALMIGHTY. Not against their respected flocks,  for we also came out of this same babylon.     My phrase "mere humans" was referring to those so-called "faith leaders" only; and by "mere humans" I am contradicting their self-projected mantles of "wise and mighty".  Those men and woman have a sick, and seared conscience: they intentionally exploit the faith, or hardship of others for their own selfish gain. I believe we are to speak boldly against all antichrists———we should follow the example of our Creator and Lord JESUS CHRIST———and drive them all out of the temple! (John 2:15)

Never say never.

So true! We don't know if we are meant to fall away....whether for a season or not,  but there is an enormous chasm between this "never say never" and those "having the appearance of godliness", but in actuality it's a facade; they  make their living by taking the Lord's Name in vain: "Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord." (1Co 11:27)       
...Therefore, it's of the utmost importance to discourage anyone from being taught by those bearing that (spiritual) mark of guilt!

Sometimes, I wonder, maybe all those filthy rich, egotistical megalomaniac "faith leaders" are really just atheist pantomiming religion......they must be!......they go far beyond being the "sincere, but sincerely wrong".  Those god jockeys can't truly be believers, while at the same time hustling "the least of these" ! (Matthew 25:35-40)  Especially, if they have any real confidence in GOD'S WORD: "Not, many teachers, become ye, my brethren, knowing that, a severer sentence, shall ye receive;" (James 3:1)




Enlightenment is all around us my friend.

God tells us in Genesis who the wisest of all the animals is and that view is basically identical to most of the older religions from which it came. The serpent is used as that icon.

Think esoteric and Kundalini.

Regards
DL

Esoteric yes. Kundalini, no!

"And be not configuring yourselves unto this age, but be transforming yourselves by the renewing of your mind, to the end ye may be proving what is the thing willed by God—the good and acceptable and perfect." (Romans 12:2)

All eastern "isms" direct a person inward, towards themselves to do "a work": by leading a person away from WHO they should be solely focused on. We are not to attempt a metaphysical "journey to god". We are to "cease our work" (sabbath) and be transformed by CHRIST and accept HIS will. The single-handed, most foundational truth that a follower of JESUS CHRIST can first be enlightened on is: "I can of mine own self do nothing" (John 5:30)

While it's true that many a creation is likened to something (aka: satan being likened to a serpent); it's also true that the serpent represents certain spiritual attributes (i.e., cunning, cleverness, etc). Satan is also very much a real spiritual entity, fulfilling the purpose he was created to fulfill. Nothing more, nothing less.

"nor may ye be called directors, for one is your director -- the Christ." (Matthew 23:10 - Young's Literal Translation)
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