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[ez2u]

What did Christ die for body, soul ,spirit?

[ICXCNIKA]

What did Christ die for body, soul ,spirit?

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that CHRIST JESUS came into the world to SAVE SINNERS; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF." (I Tim. 1:15)


Type either the words "War" or "Disease" into Google Images....you will see exactly what CHRIST died for, and, what HE died to save us from. HE is still creating us....HE laid down HIS life so that we have HOPE! ...Hope in HIM, that "sin" is not our permanent state, nor "death" our final end. HE died for EVERYTHING!... everything that could possibly ever matter to HIS children, that's all of us. We are all effected by the law of sin and death.....and, we all will one day, be MADE A NEW [so that if any one is in CHRIST -- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things (2 Corinthians 5:17 )]

O give thanks unto Yahweh, For, age-abiding, is his lovingkindness. (Chronicles 20:21) — i.e., HIS MERCY ENDURES   ...And thank GOD, too! Because it's hard to imagine Paul being worse then I was.  "Mercy", what's involved in that word? Do we as followers of JESUS show mercy to others?  I hope to always be merciful. I wish the "Christian" world would reflect that attribute of JESUS. But, they do not.
...JESUS died to change all of  us into HIS LIKENESS (Image).... we are to be as HE was, as HE is, as HE will be. 

"In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as HE is, we -- we also are in this world;" (1 John 4: 17)

"Ye -- of GOD ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is HE who is in you, than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4) 

“And when HE comes, HE will correct the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment;” ( John 16:8 ) 

"and GOD doth commend HIS own love to us, that, in our being still sinners, CHRIST did die for us; much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath; for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to GOD through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life." (Romans 5:8,9,10)
 

[ez2u]

to redeem soul or spirit .  Is my question  not He die for are sins.  I know that  but the redemption is for our soul or body.  do you understand what I am asking?

[Dave in Tenn]

Peggy, you ARE a soul.  All of us are.  Ray covered this several times in various ways. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11605.0.html

You ARE a soul, and Christ died (and rose) for you.  He will redeem YOU from death...not your body, and not some part of you that Christians call the 'soul'.  You.

[santgem]

Jesus will redeem us, in our new Soul.

[eagle]

To show us love.

John 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Eph 5:1-2    Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
                 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath
                 given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God
                 for a sweet smelling savour         

[ez2u]

so what about the spirit that lives within us not our soul or mind but spirit?  because it is my thinking that after we die our body goes to the grave and our spirit goes to the Lord ,but what happens to our soul? our mind: feelings, knowledge? our love and bitterness  etc

[Kat]

Hi Peggy,

We have a spirit/"breath of life" given to us that gives life to the body, which makes us a "living soul." The soul is what the body comes to be with spirit/life.

Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When the body dies this spirit that has given us life/consciousness/awareness goes back to God (but now becomes un-conscious) for safe keeping until the resurrection.

Ecc 12:7  and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

So the body, as well as the soul (because it does not exist without the body), goes into the grave and returns to dust, disintegrates, is gone. The mind, is the brain and heart, it goes away with the body as well. When God puts our same spirit back into a new resurrected body, then we-the soul lives again.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[santgem]

so what about the spirit that lives within us not our soul or mind but spirit?  because it is my thinking that after we die our body goes to the grave and our spirit goes to the Lord ,but what happens to our soul? our mind: feelings, knowledge? our love and bitterness  etc

In my understanding,

Body + Spirit = Soul   (old)

We will be given new spiritual bodies (I Cor. 15:42-54).  Upon resurrection it will be YOU that are given immortality--the same you that died.

New body + Spirit = New Soul
New soul===} Glorious body + spirit(old)

remember that when you are in Christ:
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2Cr 5:17


But in your bitterness:

the wicked and unbelieving  will be resurrected to JUDGMENT, and the wicked unbelievers with physical bodies to face Judgment

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:12

[Greatest I am]

God is our master owner and creator says Christian dogma.

Do you think it odd that a master would die for his slave?

Slave owners of the past seem to be more inclined to live while allowing the slaves to die for them.

Owners tend to think that if they are dead that the estate will go to hell, so to speak and that is why masters would live and let the lower echelons die.

To believe that God died for us, we would have to wonder why God would condemn us in the first place knowing that he would have to die for us.

That makes no sense unless someone here can shed sense on this.

As above so below says scripture.

Would you condemn your children knowing you had to die from your own action of condemnation.

I think that would be quite insane and against scripture and justice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

God would not put the wickedness of others onto Jesus and thus punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Your sins are yours my friend and there is only one way to atone.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Regards
DL

[Kat]

Hi Greatest I am,

Welcome to the forum 

The sovereign God has determined what needs to be done to get the outcome He desires and in His perfect wisdom we have this world. Now it you question the wisdom of His plan, you are in ignorant of the brilliance of it is all.

This whole creation is a process, first comes the physical/natural/carnal (1Co 15:46), that is this life and learning about good and evil.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

A person has life and by the experiences that we have we gain an understanding of physical things and that certainly includes pain and suffering, but also joys and pleasures and death in the end of it. This develops a character in a person, but since man is created carnal and too weak to resist sin, we sin, a lot.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

So we are in a place of darkness, not capable of our self to know truth/light. This is a necessary backdrop for people to have as a comparison, of good and evil.

John 12:46  I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.

John 8:12  Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Yes this world is a dark place for now, this age is to show mankind through experience what evil is.

John 3:19  And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Here a a few things that I thought you could benefit from.

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html -----------------------

God "created evil" (Isa. 45:7). God does not create things that do not serve a good purpose. By the way, the word translated into "evil" in Isa. 45:7 is the Hebrew word ra, and it is the very same word translated hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times as "evil" throughout the Old Testament.

Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:
v
v
We have seen that not even Satan can go against God’s intentions. Satan needs permission from God to do his dirty work. Since God is responsible (but not accountable—seeing that nothing He does is without a great and beneficial purpose), God takes responsibility for His whole creation, and that is why everything will turn out perfect for every one of God’s creatures.


http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#account ------------

There are a couple of reasons why God holds one accountable (not responsible--God takes the responsibility) for his sins even if he couldn't have done otherwise.

People who sin and have no desire to please God, do not believe in the first place that they do not have a free will regarding their sins. They believe that they ARE in control of their own destiny. See the example of that I use of the Assyrian king in the latter part of my letter to James Kennedy. The king took credit for conquering all the nations around him. He though HE was the mighty one. He thought HE planned and did these mighty acts by HIMSELF. God informs us that the king was merely a pawn (or an ax) in God's own hand doing the conquering.  Our pride and vanity will be conquered by God.

We actually DO commit the sins that we commit. Whether we could have done otherwise is immaterial in as much as committing the sin makes us SINNERS.  Think of sin as DIRT.  It matters not HOW we got dirty--God is going to give EVERYONE A BATH LIKE IT OR NOT. God is God and He can and will do as HE pleases. And God pleases to put us through an experience of sin and death before He glorifies us with all the powers of the universe.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384 ----

"So this is the best that God can do , but it’s not pretty and it’s not fancy and it’s not always happy.  It’s painful  and sad and much of our lives are misery, you know, laughing on the outside and crying on the inside.  It’s not always happy happy happy, but it’s necessary.  Is it right, that God should put us through something like that?

We have no say about it, we didn’t ask to be born and we didn’t ask to get lung cancer or whatever.  We didn’t ask for this, God puts us through it.  Is it fair for Him to do that?  Why is it fair?  Well there is something good in store.  But is it necessary that we would have to go through all of this bad first?  It’s true, you have to have the contrast.  But sometimes I just say, Lord I think I’m at the place now, Lord I think I’m there. You can take away the bad and see if I’m not thankful. 

He sent Jesus Christ to go through the same stuff we go through and that’s why I wanted to bring these out today.  Because most of you never knew that.  Jesus Christ lived a pretty painful life.  Paul lived a pretty painful life, he said I learned to be content in all things.  God put His Son through what we have to go through, because He loves us!  He didn’t have to.

Jesus Christ did something between His creation and the creation of the earth.  He did something to acquire God’s glory, something.  Because He had it and He didn’t get it for nothing.
 
God wants creatures, He wants children, He wants sons and daughters.  He has a desire to have something like Himself.  But for us to be like Him, we have to go through some pretty tough stuff.  So He sent His Son as an example, as how you can go through it and never get angry or upset with God.  And to never turn against your fellowman, because of what you have to go through.  He lived a perfect life, of the perfect man, sick and diseased, in pain and He lived it perfectly.  But God was living in Him, the Father was going through it just as much as He was, you see. 

Christ had to die, it said He had to die for our sins.  That’s true, that’s the scripture, Christ died for our sin.  But then we have a scripture here that doesn’t mention sin.

John 3:16  "For God so(thus) loved the world,”

Thus or in the manner, a lot of people think it’s saying He loved us so much, but that is not what this is saying.  What this is saying is God loved us, in this way.  This is the manner and way in which He loved us.  In this way He loved the world.

“…that He gave His only begotten Son,”

Ok, He died, they killed Him on the cross, He died.

 “…that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”

Of course the Bible is written so man don’t understand it.  That’s why some of these things are put in there, “that who-so-ever believes.”  God knows and now we know, everybody is going to believe.  So the ‘who-so-ever’ is going to be everybody, ok. 

But He gave His Son, now here’s the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die?  Why?  Why did the Father sacrifice His Son?  Why did He have to do that?  HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT!  He didn’t have to do anything, HE’S GOD!  Why did He?
 
Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure.  That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US!  He did not have to die.  He said, I will do it to show them.  How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value?  What can I do?  I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life.  I have all that to give, but they will say,  you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have.  What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you?  And God said, I will DIE!
 
But God can’t die, He’s eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness.  If you have immortality you can’t die. 
So He made a Son.  He made Him great.  And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son.  Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
 
Then they will know We love them.
 
Then they will know!
-------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Greatest I am]

Thanks for this.

Addressing what I wrote would have been more helpful.

Telling me that an immortal God can die just confuses the issue.

Regards
DL

[Dennis Vogel]

Thanks for this.

Addressing what I wrote would have been more helpful.

Telling me that an immortal God can die just confuses the issue.

Regards
DL

What do you believe DL? Did Christ actually die for our sins? Was He as dead as the bugs on my windshield from ten years ago?

[Rex8]

" God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US!  He did not have to die.  "


This   statement is patently false.Yahshua died for a REASON MUCH MUCH  MORE than to SHOW US he loved us(which is of course true).Yahshua is THE SEED and unless a seed is sown into the ground (earth.... adamah) and DIES... it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.THAT is why he became incarnate and died.To sow the spirit of GOD into all creation to produce fruit (growth..salvation) 30, 60 and 100 fold.EVERYTHING is connected to the KEY parable of the soil and the seed.

[Rex8]

God is our master owner and creator says Christian dogma.

Do you think it odd that a master would die for his slave?

Yes .....unless he was a GOOD master then  he would die for the most for the most "wretched...humanity  and thats exactly what Yahshua did.

Slave owners of the past seem to be more inclined to live while allowing the slaves to die for them.

Owners tend to think that if they are dead that the estate will go to hell, so to speak and that is why masters would live and let the lower echelons die.

To believe that God died for us, we would have to wonder why God would condemn us in the first place knowing that he would have to die for us.

That makes no sense unless someone here can shed sense on this.

Of course it makes no sense.Why would  a carnal mind understand things of the spirit.God is the MASTER of all like it or not.We are his slaves  like it or not.If you think you can do ANYTHING on your own your are greatly mistaken.Your logic is purely carnal so of course you are led to that false conclusion.

God created us in this condition because it's the growth process of salvation(Yahshua).Take the seed not dieing in the earth to grow to produce fruit and it all falls apart into nothingness.That was ALL accomplished BEFORE the worlds we formed..all part of the grand equation  ....the sum of Gods word(30,60 100 fold).Yahshua's life death and resurrection were the physical manifestations of those marrying the physical with the spiritual.It is DONE ...complete...forever settled.

As above so below says scripture.

please show me "where in the scriptures that says that ... that is a Hermetic maxim.

.
Would you condemn your children knowing you had to die from your own action of condemnation.

I think that would be quite insane and against scripture and justice.

God doesn't condemn ANYONE man does.There is NO condemnation in the anointing of Yahshua.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

God would not put the wickedness of others onto Jesus and thus punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Your sins are yours my friend and there is only one way to atone.

Yahshua came to GIVE LIFE.. his blood... HIS LIFE.(not his physical blood.)When he said unless you MUST eat my flesh and drink my blood he did not mean that literally or transmogrification or any other religious contamination.He GAVE his Life as the SEED.THAT is the sacrifice  he HAD to die that ALL may live THROUGH his life (infinite).

We are born in sin..imperfection....immaturity....like all things.THAT is what he died for to bring us to maturity THROUGH the salvation process.All this religious mumbo jumbo and ritual arguing over the meaning of words is useless.it is DONE.....when you hear that words it is forever settled in your heavens that are IN your midst (not some fantasy land somewhere OUT there).

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Regards
DL

thank God he is patient and COMPLETELY understands man foolishness of religion (he is causing it!!).Searching the scriptures DAILY thinking in THEM they have life YET FAILING to come to him (Yahshua..Gods salvation).FAITH comes by HEARING and hearing by the WORD of GOD.....revelation....you(Yahshua) ARE the Christ ...FLESH and blood (nor words in a book) has not revealed that.

[ez2u]

thanks Kat you came through once again!!!!   pretty clear now with this understanding

[darren]

we have scripture that tells us Jesus died for our sins. past sins, present sins and sin we will commit in the future.  does anyone has scripture that tells Jesus died so we can have his seed to be spread through humanity, Jesus died so God can show us how much He loves us. could be wrong but i dint think so. Jesus was the Lame to be sacerficed to pay the penalty for mankind sins. the payment for sin is death. our carnal spirit could never be one WI the Holy Spirit spirit. the many that are called would never understand Scripture, therefore some humans  would never become the few. sorry got carried away. sin is why Jesus died. we would never know The Lord God if the payment was paid.  i could b wrong. Wouldn't b the first or the last time I'm wrong

[ez2u]

some here are missing the question  The question is wil our souls be redeemed or are spirits or will be a body glorified

[Dennis Vogel]

Earlier Dave posted several comments by Ray. Here is one that should answer your question:

Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."

In another thread Joel pointed out:

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

So yes, Jesus has a soul. But did He require a 'new' spiritual body considering He was without sin and the Creator?

Joh 20:17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

So it is clear that when Mary saw Jesus in the morning He had not yet ascended to His Father and she could not touch Him. But that same evening He had Thomas shove his hand into the hole in His side (touch Him).

Was what Mary saw in the morning a physical body?

Was that body Jesus used to show Thomas a glorified body? It was not allowed to 'see corruption' (decay) but was it even alive? Was the heart beating causing blood to circulate and run out of His wounds? Or was Jesus simply using that body to communicate? Is He still using that same body in heaven? Did He have a physical body before He emptied Himself and became human?

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

[jeetkunejimi]

Hi ez2u,
           the way I ultimately see it is that our Lord Jesus Christ came to save us all from our sinful selves. He [Jesus] is the example of how God [YHWH] wants and wills us all to end up, and so it will be done.

Christ's life is like one big parable showing what we must all go through to become what God has planned from before the beginning, including one of the most important things, that of dying to 'self'. Jesus showed us how to die to 'self' in the garden of Gethsemane and then on a cross. To me this is why EVERYTHING hinges on Christ and his life as Jesus of Nazareth on earth all those years ago, because without him and his pattern, his example, we would all be lost. Just doomed to death, but through Jesus we are fated to life and immortality, victory over death, ever after with God.

This to me is the real 'GOOD NEWS', that ALL will go through what Christ has demonstrated with such conviction and love and all will be restored and united with God (Acts 3:19-21), Amen.

So I would conclude that Jesus died for our incapability to not sin, and that he alone is the KEY to unlocking our destiny, the KEY OF LOVE.

Sincerely,
Jimi.  .