Does Jesus have a soul?

[Greatest I am]

Does Jesus have a soul?

The hierarchy in heaven is God above and all souls below his position followed by angels if you happen to believe in those. That being the case, the human part of Jesus would also be below God and not at the right hand of God. No human soul can sit beside or be equal to God.

The God part of Jesus would be equal to the Father and Holy Spirit thus indistinguishable from either if he manifested himself. He could then sit at God's right hand but his soul, being less than God-like could not.

If Jesus is at the highest level with God and it is impossible for a soul to be at that level, this indicates that Jesus somehow had two consciousnesses, one divine and one human in the same body on earth and that they would separate upon reaching heaven.  That or Jesus had no soul.

If Jesus was not divine and a part of that strange Trinity concept, then he could not sit at the right hand of God as only God can sit at the highest level.

I see an impossible catch 22 here and wondered if any Christian could shed some light to get out of this catch 22.

Regards
DL

[Dennis Vogel]

I don't see the problem here. When Jesus was on this earth as a human being He had a soul as well as a spirit.

When He was killed His soul went to the same place all souls go. He was dead and his spirit was resurrected.

[dave]

Post from Dave in Tenn.

Peggy, you ARE a soul.  All of us are.  Ray covered this several times in various ways. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11605.0.html

You ARE a soul, and Christ died (and rose) for you.  He will redeem YOU from death...not your body, and not some part of you that Christians call the 'soul'.  You.

[Kat]

Hi DL,

The God of the OT is who became Jesus Christ, here are a few Scriptures of His referring to His soul.

Isa 42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
       My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
       I have put My Spirit upon Him;
       He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Jer 6:8  Be instructed, O Jerusalem,
       Lest My soul depart from you;
       Lest I make you desolate,
       A land not inhabited."

Jer 32:41  Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.'

Mat 12:18  "Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen,
       My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!
       I will put My Spirit upon Him,
       And He will declare justice to the Gentiles.

Mark 14:34  Then He said to them, "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch."

These Scriptures show God does indeed have a soul.


Hi Micah7:9,

Here are a few emails that may help.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3253.0.html ---

the spirit is not the soul. The spirit does not have consciousness. The spirit cannot think thoughts, and that is why our "thoughts perish" at death according to David.  Our spirit as well as Christ Spirit had to be reunited with a BODY before we or He would have consciousness again. Jesus was DEAD for three days, not "absent from the body" for three days.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html -------

there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html -----------

You have to get out of out if your head the idea that the spirit soul and body are "separate entities" as if they could function independently of each other. Remember my TV analogy of six years ago? The console is the body, the picture is the soul, and the electricity is the spirit. Yes, they are "entities," if you will that have distinct names, and functions, but none of them produces anything independent of each other. Smash the console and you have not soul (picture). Pull the plug and you have not soul (picture).
Likewise remove the spirit, and the body dies. Remove the spirit and the soul disappears. Smash the body and the soul disappears. The soul IS THE SENTIENT man. The emotional, thinking, conscious man. This consciousness is called "soul." It is not a thing that can literally travel or go somewhere independent of the body and brain. That is why it is said in the Greek Scriptures that at death the soul goes to hades. Hades means the unseen, the imperceptible, unconsciousness.
It take spirit from God in a body to give it live, which life is then called "a LIVING SOUL."
It takes a little meditation to understand these concepts.
-------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dave in Tenn]

For Micah:  This is part of the problem with language, especially in a 'religious' context.

Maybe this is helpful:

I am a life, and I have a life.

I am a human, and I have humanity.

Those we understand, and have no problem reconciling.

I am a soul, and I have (a) soul.

Suddenly we don't understand any more, because 'soul' is one of those "bible words" that's been obscured by religious visions of "souls" surviving dying, and being some "ingredient" in man.  That's not what the Scripture (or Ray) teaches.

When God breathed Spirit into the body of man (and dear God, now we also have to understand what Spirit is?) he became a living soul.  Soul isn't an ingredient, but a result.

To the OP:


"Does Jesus have a soul?"

In like manner, Jesus both was and had a soul.  When He died, the "ingredients" of Spirit and body were separated.  The Spirit returned to God (Who is Spirit) and the body went to the tomb.  When He was raised from the dead, Spirit returned to his body and He became alive again...a living soul.  His body clearly was changed (a promise yet to be fulfilled in us). 

"The hierarchy in heaven is God above and all souls below his position followed by angels if you happen to believe in those. That being the case, the human part of Jesus would also be below God and not at the right hand of God. No human soul can sit beside or be equal to God."

The hierarchy is God and the family of God (of whom the SON is the first), the angels, and man (who is made a little lower than the angels for the time being).   

"The God part of Jesus would be equal to the Father and Holy Spirit thus indistinguishable from either if he manifested himself. He could then sit at God's right hand but his soul, being less than God-like could not."

There is no "Holy Spirit" as a separate entity in the God-head/family of God.

"If Jesus is at the highest level with God and it is impossible for a soul to be at that level, this indicates that Jesus somehow had two consciousnesses, one divine and one human in the same body on earth and that they would separate upon reaching heaven.  That or Jesus had no soul."

Wrong premises lead to wrong conclusions.  Know what a "soul" is before you construct a theology.

"If Jesus was not divine and a part of that strange Trinity concept, then he could not sit at the right hand of God as only God can sit at the highest level."

Yes, that Trinity concept is strange, and false as well.  But Scripture DOES say He is sitting at the right hand of the Father.  Understand it Spiritually.   

"I see an impossible catch 22 here and wondered if any Christian could shed some light to get out of this catch 22."

I don't see a catch 22, but the best (literally) I can do to shed light is to direct you to the materials at bible-truths.com along with a lot of meditation on these truths.








 

[dave]

I had totally understood until today???

Jo. 4:24 God is spirit. But ray said, " The spirit cannot think thoughts,..." (from Kat)
Does that mean that God does not think thoughts?

"I am a soul, and I have (a) soul.

Suddenly we don't understand any more, because 'soul' is one of those "bible words" that's been obscured by religious visions of "souls" surviving dying, and being some "ingredient" in man.  That's not what the Scripture (or Ray) teaches." From Dave in Tenn)

I believe what the Bible and Ray teach and that is Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

That is what I believe a soul is, a breathing creature. If man is a living soul, when did man get a soul?
I understand the words "breath of life" as man's ignition, his respiratory system for human life. I understand Ecc. 12:7 as the breath of life returns to the one who gave it.

""Does Jesus have a soul?"

In like manner, Jesus both was and had a soul.  When He died, the "ingredients" of Spirit and body were separated.  The Spirit returned to God (Who is Spirit) and the body went to the tomb.  When He was raised from the dead, Spirit returned to his body and He became alive again...a living soul.  His body clearly was changed (a promise yet to be fulfilled in us)."

Now, I have to re-study much. I don't believe in a trinity haven't for a long time. There is much that has become fuzzy reading this thread.

[Dave in Tenn]

I had totally understood until today???

What's the problem, Micah?

[dave]

See reply #5

[Dave in Tenn]

If I contributed to that, I'm sorry. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11605.0.html

That's a collection of teachings where Ray explains this in various ways.  My 'favorite' is the 'blue tape/yellow tape' example.

I'll only add that the Father IS Spirit, not "A Spirit", and not a man.

   

[ez2u]

Micah  this is not my post  my name is ez2u  peggy

[Joel]

Jesus does have a soul. The scriptures say he does, both Peter, and Paul quote Psalms 16:10 as they preach the Gospel concerning Jesus and his Resurrection.
Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Peter refers to this in Acts 2:27.
Paul speaks, using the same verse from Psalms in Acts 13:35.

Joel

[darren]

just so i understand, all living things on this planet are souls.

[dave]

just so i understand, all living things on this planet are souls.

I agree, and since as soul, is a  breathing creature[according to Gen. 2:7] and a soul is not and entity of it's self, I will wonder about all that has been stated.

[ICXCNIKA]

[Dave in Tenn]

C. S. Lewis thought eternal Hell was reasonable.  In fact, reading Mere Christianity as a young man was what began to show me the utter hypocrisy of something I had mostly just accepted as dogma.  I'm thankful for that, but not for the reasons Mr. Lewis envisioned when he wrote it.

[santgem]

just so i understand, all living things on this planet are souls.

I agree, and since as soul, is a  breathing creature[according to Gen. 2:7] and a soul is not and entity of it's self, I will wonder about all that has been stated.

Meaning; Plants and trees are soul?

[zee325]

Soul H5315
In addition to "life", "living creature" The word  also means "the seat of emotions and passions", it was sometimes translated as heart or mind and appropriately so. For example:

Pro 28:25  He that is of a proud heart (soul)H5315 stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

Soul H5315

heart, 12
Exo_23:9, Lev_26:16, Deu_24:15, 1Sa_2:33, 2Sa_3:21, Pro_23:7, Pro_28:25, Lam_3:51, Eze_25:6, Eze_25:15, Eze_27:31, Hos_4:8
mind, 11
Gen_23:8 (2), Deu_18:6, Deu_28:65, 1Sa_2:35, 1Ch_28:9, Jer_15:1, Eze_23:17-18 (3), Eze_23:22, Eze_23:28

So yes, I AM a soul (human being, living person), and I have a soul.

Animals were called soul as well, but I haven't seen any reference to soul being used for plants. My impression from reading the scriptures is that, soul (H5315) includes creatures of the air and water and land, they "move" and "creep" on land, in water and in air, and they are of flesh:

Gen 1:21  And God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creatureH5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 9:15  And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16  And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh that is upon the earth.

[santgem]

Soul H5315
In addition to "life", "living creature" The word  also means "the seat of emotions and passions", it was sometimes translated as heart or mind and appropriately so. For example:

Pro 28:25  He that is of a proud heart (soul)H5315 stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

Soul H5315

heart, 12
Exo_23:9, Lev_26:16, Deu_24:15, 1Sa_2:33, 2Sa_3:21, Pro_23:7, Pro_28:25, Lam_3:51, Eze_25:6, Eze_25:15, Eze_27:31, Hos_4:8
mind, 11
Gen_23:8 (2), Deu_18:6, Deu_28:65, 1Sa_2:35, 1Ch_28:9, Jer_15:1, Eze_23:17-18 (3), Eze_23:22, Eze_23:28

So yes, I AM a soul (human being, living person), and I have a soul.

Animals were called soul as well, but I haven't seen any reference to soul being used for plants. My impression from reading the scriptures is that, soul (H5315) includes creatures of the air and water and land, they "move" and "creep" on land, in water and in air, and they are of flesh:

Gen 1:21  And God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creatureH5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 9:15  And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16  And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh that is upon the earth.

What about?

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Gen. 1:29

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.Gen. 1:30 (also green herb and trees have life)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.Gen. 1:31

[zee325]

Soul H5315
In addition to "life", "living creature" The word  also means "the seat of emotions and passions", it was sometimes translated as heart or mind and appropriately so. For example:

Pro 28:25  He that is of a proud heart (soul)H5315 stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

Soul H5315

heart, 12
Exo_23:9, Lev_26:16, Deu_24:15, 1Sa_2:33, 2Sa_3:21, Pro_23:7, Pro_28:25, Lam_3:51, Eze_25:6, Eze_25:15, Eze_27:31, Hos_4:8
mind, 11
Gen_23:8 (2), Deu_18:6, Deu_28:65, 1Sa_2:35, 1Ch_28:9, Jer_15:1, Eze_23:17-18 (3), Eze_23:22, Eze_23:28

So yes, I AM a soul (human being, living person), and I have a soul.

Animals were called soul as well, but I haven't seen any reference to soul being used for plants. My impression from reading the scriptures is that, soul (H5315) includes creatures of the air and water and land, they "move" and "creep" on land, in water and in air, and they are of flesh:

Gen 1:21  And God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creatureH5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 9:15  And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16  And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh that is upon the earth.

What about?

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Gen. 1:29

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.Gen. 1:30 (also green herb and trees have life)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.Gen. 1:31

I am not sure what your question is.

the 2 verses you quoted talked about food for the man and for the creatures wherein there is soul H5315. Basically, plant is for food for the living souls.

Gen 1:29 And saying is the Elohim, "Behold, I give to you all herbage seeding seed, which is on the surface of the entire earth, and every tree which has in it the fruit of a tree seeding seed. For you it is coming to be for food.
Gen 1:30 And for all land life, and for every flyer of the heavens, and for every moving animal on the land, which has in it a living soul, all green herbage is for food. And coming is it to be so.

[santgem]

Soul H5315
In addition to "life", "living creature" The word  also means "the seat of emotions and passions", it was sometimes translated as heart or mind and appropriately so. For example:

Pro 28:25  He that is of a proud heart (soul)H5315 stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

Soul H5315

heart, 12
Exo_23:9, Lev_26:16, Deu_24:15, 1Sa_2:33, 2Sa_3:21, Pro_23:7, Pro_28:25, Lam_3:51, Eze_25:6, Eze_25:15, Eze_27:31, Hos_4:8
mind, 11
Gen_23:8 (2), Deu_18:6, Deu_28:65, 1Sa_2:35, 1Ch_28:9, Jer_15:1, Eze_23:17-18 (3), Eze_23:22, Eze_23:28

So yes, I AM a soul (human being, living person), and I have a soul.

Animals were called soul as well, but I haven't seen any reference to soul being used for plants. My impression from reading the scriptures is that, soul (H5315) includes creatures of the air and water and land, they "move" and "creep" on land, in water and in air, and they are of flesh:

Gen 1:21  And God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creatureH5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 9:15  And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16  And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creatureH5315 of all flesh that is upon the earth.

What about?

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Gen. 1:29

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.Gen. 1:30 (also green herb and trees have life)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.Gen. 1:31

I am not sure what your question is.

the 2 verses you quoted talked about food for the man and for the creatures wherein there is soul H5315. Basically, plant is for food for the living souls.

Gen 1:29 And saying is the Elohim, "Behold, I give to you all herbage seeding seed, which is on the surface of the entire earth, and every tree which has in it the fruit of a tree seeding seed. For you it is coming to be for food.
Gen 1:30 And for all land life, and for every flyer of the heavens, and for every moving animal on the land, which has in it a living soul, all green herbage is for food. And coming is it to be so.

Our brother and sister quoted this;

Quote from: micah7:9 on March 10, 2013, 01:30:33 AM
Quote from: darren on March 09, 2013, 04:49:21 AM
just so i understand, all living things on this planet are souls.[/color]

I agree, and since as soul, is a  breathing creature[according to Gen. 2:7] and a soul is not and entity of it's self, I will wonder about all that has been stated.

That is why i ask about plants and trees;

Meaning; Plants and trees are soul?

If all living things on this planet are souls, meaning plants and trees are souls also, as they are living things?

Verses in Genesis are given. Mine is to make clarifications as to what the brother's stand. We have always to know the truth and to study, of course with the contributions of all believers.