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Author Topic: John 17:9  (Read 2025 times)

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GaryK

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John 17:9
« on: March 17, 2013, 12:46:59 PM »

John 17:9

Jesus Prays for His Disciples


6 ďI have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."



1: Jesus prayed for the disciples and not the world.  Why?


2: Are we, as followers of Christ, to pray for the world? 
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Gina

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 01:38:43 PM »

1.   Who would have murdered Jesus?  No one.  And we'd all be out of a Savior and the scriptures wouldn't have been fulfilled.

2.  He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still.  (Rev. 22:11)

My two cents, but it seems that if the entire world (the wicked and vile - not simply sinners -- for all have sinned save One) had been prayed for by Jesus they would have all repented (and been healed), and not one of His disciples would have learned how to love and bless their enemies because they would have not one enemy to exercise God's spiritual gifts and grow by them:  "Love is patient, love is kind, etc., etc." 

We do know that Jesus saves all in the end.

God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust and God is the savior of all men, especially (not exclusively) of those that believe.

Again, it doesn't say He prayed against the world, He just wasn't praying for the world, because had He, they would have turned and repented.  But He prayed for those that were nailing Him to the cross -- Father forgive them, for they know not what they do (even if some say that's a spurious passage).

That's the best I can come up with at this point.  I'm sure there are others who can fill in any gaps.  And if not, then the Holy Spirit will teach you all these things.  :)
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Extol

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 01:42:19 PM »


Concerning them I am asking. Not concerning the world am I asking, but concerning those whom Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine...
(Concordant Literal New Testament).

Jesus was asking for a particular thing in this prayer, and it only concerned those "Thou hast given me". This is what he asked for:

Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, in which Thou hast given them to Me, that they may be one, according as We are. (v. 11).

This request did not apply to the world, because "to them the secrets of the kingdom of heaven have not been given" (Matthew 13:11). That's why Jesus was not praying for the world in this instance. I don't think we can infer that Jesus never prayed for the world, just because he didn't in this particular prayer. Nor should we assume that we are to not pray for the world.

1 I am entreating, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, pleadings, thanksgiving be made for all mankind,
2 for kings and all those being in a superior station, that we may be leading a mild and quiet life in all devoutness and gravity,
3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
  (1 Tim. 2:1-4, CLNT).


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eagle

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2013, 06:17:46 PM »

Quote
1.   Who would have murdered Jesus?  No one.  And we'd all be out of a Savior and the scriptures wouldn't have been fulfilled.
Reminds me of the time Jesus spoke of his death and resurrection, and

"Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matthew 16:22-23

But when Judas  " ..and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people." Matt 26:47
came to give Jesus the infamous Judas kiss, Jesus said:
" Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him." Matt 26:50
Oh, the mysteries of God.

Anyway, to address the question: Jesus prayed for the disciples and not the world.  Why?
I will answer it with a rhetorical question:
Why would Jesus pray for something that already is exactly the way
it is supposed to be( the world) according to Gods plan?  ....unlike us
humans whom God is creating in His own image ( work in progress).

Just my two cents



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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 06:32:29 PM »

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Rhys

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2013, 04:26:27 AM »

This whole paper is excellent and helps me in reference to your question


From Praying by Godís rules

http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

Ray's passages in blue.

Now then, if it was Godís intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, and God inspires you to pray for that favor, then it will surely be given to you. If on the other hand, if it was not Godís intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, then no amount of praying will cause God to grant it to you. Either way, Godís will must be done, and if that is the greatest desire of your prayer for Godís will to be done in your life, then whether you receive some particular favor or you donít receive it, nonetheless, YOUR PRAYER WILL BE ANSWERED.

That above passage is how I see it. God lays things on my heart so I pray for them. Iím not sure what the exact answer is going to be but I know I should be praying for it. I always find God gives me specific things or people to pray for and not some big general thing like the world. Iím no Miss Universe contestant wishing for world peace in the next 5 minutes.

And so, if we always pray according to Godís Will, with a clean conscience, obeying the commandments of God, and are aided by the Holy Spirit of God to pray only "in accord with what MUST BE," we will begin seeing answered prayer where we may have been frustrated in the past.
 
This was me too in the past and still partly true today, getting so frustrated with things that donít happen for me but happen for others. Thanks to God for using Ray I find myself coming in line with what God wants and not what I want. Hard lesson to learn but what a great one to learn. Not my will be thy will. Life seems a lot more fulfilling when you start walking in accord with what must be. Thatís what is happening to me and I find I'm closer to God because of it.

Anything you desire that accords with Godís will, and accords with "what must be." God has met my physical needs of food, clothing, shelter, and transportation. What I pray about are qualities of godlinessólove, faith, courage, knowledge & understanding, wisdom, patience, self-control, thankfulness. I am a firm believer that if we think about the right things, we will then pray about the right things. I pray all day about everything and anything that is strongly on my mind. Why shouldnít we, seeing that God is our Father and Jesus is our Saviour and Elder Brother? God wants to hear from us. Talk to your God. Anything important enough for you to think about or be concerned about is worthy of talking with God about.

So well said by Ray. Those qualities of godliness bring me such joy. I finally find the place that I should be and now I know what it means to shout for joy.

Psalm 98:4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth, burst into jubilant song with music;

What I do now is like what Ray says, whatever Iím thinking about I will pray about. I donít even care about what it is or who it is, I just pray and leave it up to God.

Php 2:13  for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

1Th 5:17  Pray without ceasing.


He likes to hear from me so I talk to Him and I like talking to Him. Actually more and more so as I discover more of His truth. Itís not vague and all over the place but personal to me with specifics of what I should be asking for. Heís got a plan for me and you and guides us by His Holy Spirit. Spend time in His word and with Him Heís pretty cool and such a great friend to have.

Jas 4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8  Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.


I ask God what do you want from me Lord and humble myself, realising itís Him and not me and I must decrease and Him increase.

Grace be with all of you.

Rhys




« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 07:38:14 AM by Rhys »
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

GaryK

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2013, 12:38:51 PM »

I am satisfied.

Thank you all.

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onelovedread

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 01:11:47 PM »

I'm glad for you but confused.  Are you Horseman or satisfied?
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Joel

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 08:52:15 PM »

John 15:19 helps clear up John 17:9.

John 15:19-If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Psalms 24:1- The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

The world belongs to God, but as Ray has shown from the scriptures there are many called, but few are chosen.

Joel
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indianabob

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 03:12:48 AM »

Hi folks,
There are Jews and then there are Gentiles.
Jesus, a Jew, was not sent to minister to the Gentiles.
Jesus commanded his apostles the 12 to NOT go to the Gentiles, but to go only to the circumcision in the dispersion.
Yes there were a few particular exceptions caused to connect with the 12 by God's spirit, but in general there was not a mission into any gentile territory, that was left to Paul many years later.

Why was this done this way??
What of God's promises to the children of Abraham of a Kingdom?
Bob
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John from Kentucky

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Re: John 17:9
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2013, 12:06:34 AM »

Hi folks,
There are Jews and then there are Gentiles.
Jesus, a Jew, was not sent to minister to the Gentiles.
Jesus commanded his apostles the 12 to NOT go to the Gentiles, but to go only to the circumcision in the dispersion.
Yes there were a few particular exceptions caused to connect with the 12 by God's spirit, but in general there was not a mission into any gentile territory, that was left to Paul many years later.

Why was this done this way??
What of God's promises to the children of Abraham of a Kingdom?
Bob

When Jesus said He was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, He was not speaking literally.

Jesus' words were spirit.  He spoke in parables and symbols to hide His meaning.

One is not a Jew outwardly, nor is circumcision of the flesh; but a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in the letter.  Romans 2:28-29

A descendant of Abraham is not one physically, but is of the One Seed Who is Jesus.  Galatians 3:16

The House of Israel is Jesus' Elect, His chosen ones, His true Church.  We are the Israel of God.  Galatians 6:16

Jesus has come to save His Elect now because judgment begins at the House of God.

That is why Jesus prays for His Elect.  Because the Elect are being saved now.

Jesus is not praying for the world because the world is not being saved now, in this age.

Later, at the end, at the Great Fall Festival, is when Jesus will save the Many, the whole world.  And the prophecy will be fulfilled, "In your Seed (Jesus) all the nations of the earth shall be blessed."  Genesis 22:18
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