Torment of Legion Spirit

[HoneyLamb56]

Mark 5-10 ...I implore You by God that You do not torment me!

If we are to go thru judgment and Satan and the demons will be dealt with at the end then why were they afraid of torment at that time?  why would they rather have chosen to go into a herd of swine than to be sent out of the country? They seemed to be more afraid of the present then the future. Jesus didn't come to "torment" so what is the spiritual application?

[Dave in Tenn]

I've read the passage, and don't see where they were 'afraid'.  They begged not to be sent out of the country.  The Lord did not send them out of the country, but sent them where they asked to be sent.  I don't see 'torment' in the passage at all except that caused by the spirits in the man.  But the swine died, and the man was free of them, clothed, and in his right mind. 

[HoneyLamb56]

Thanks Dave: I reread the passage and I agree that it was the unclean man who saw and worshiped Jesus but I'm not so sure it was the man talking or the demon when he said do not torment me.  That aside:  Is it not fear that Legion (he) chose to enter the swine rather than being sent out of the country?  What is the implication of this?  What has being sent out of the country to do with this? 

5:8/9 "for He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!".  Then He asked him, "what is your name?" and he answered saying, "my name is Legion: for we are many."   Mark 5:10 "also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country."  5:11/12  "now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains so all the demons begged Him saying "send us to the swine, that we may enter them."

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm not sure either who was speaking to Jesus when the man approached him.  I assume it was "Legion".   

Luke 21:8  And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

I'm also not sure who was begging not to be tormented, or why he or it or they were begging, though it/they had clear control of the man, otherwise he wouldn't be where he was, doing what he did.  Add to that:  Why this place that they did not want to be sent away from?  Why did Jesus grant the request of demons?

I don't know for sure. 

But taking the whole account, the only ones clearly 'tormented' in the end were the swine..and that only lasted until they were dead.  Is there Spiritual significance to that regarding judgement?  I think so.

[sansmile]

I think a good point here in this instance is, they were sent into the SWINE.

[eagle]

Hello HoneyLamb56

Jesus didn't come to "torment" so what is the spiritual application?

The greek word that is translated "torment" is basanos. Ray describes this word in his "Lazarus and the rich man" paper

The Greek word translated "torments" in verse 23 is basanos.
From Friberg's Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, we are told that basanois which is a form of the noun basanos, means, "strictly, a touchstone for testing the genuineness of metals by rubbing against it..."
In secular Greek literature this word (basanois) was used figuratively to extract information from a person by torture or punishment.
From the Greek-English Keyword Concordance we read this, torment, literally a touchstone, used to test metals for alloys, [and] then the examination of persons by torture (Page 307).
Though the Rich man may, indeed, be suffering discomfort or pain, it is not from fire burning his flesh, but rather from being tested and proved through chastisement. .

why would they rather have chosen to go into a herd of swine than to be sent out of the country?

This "swine story" is also recorded in Matt 8 and Luke 8, and in Luke 8:31 it says:
"And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep"
The greek word that is translated "deep" is abyssos. Ray touches upon this word in an email:

In Luke 8, the demons did not fear going to "hell." Read it, Dan, they feared being put back into the "deep" as it is in KJV or more properly the "submerged chaos." It is the SAME word translated "bottomless pit" in Rev. where Satan is held for a thousand years, and THEN he is put into the "lake of fire" (Ver. 10). (He is held in the pit because God has one more dirty work for Satan to perform before he begins his purification in the lake of fire (not the pit).

 

But taking the whole account, the only ones clearly 'tormented' in the end were the swine..and that only lasted until they were dead.  Is there Spiritual significance to that regarding judgement?  I think so.

I think so too. Can I have a stab at this?

Proverbs  11:22   "As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion (taste,judgement)

We know from Scripture/Ray´s writngs that a woman in Scripture is a symbol of a church.
So could the swines be a symbol of :
Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
This harlot it says in Revelations is also decked with gold, and she is also a "fair woman"
Revelation 17:6 "..and when i saw her i marvelled"

This harlot is also like the swines "..and is become the habitation of devils" Revelation 18:2

"..and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake and were choked" Luke 8:33
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. Rev. 18:21

Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear" Luke 8:37
The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, Rev 18:15

Maybe I´m stretching this, but anyway: use it or lose it!
With all that mentioning of devils,swines and harlots, I think I will end on a more positive note:



"And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.  Eph 3:19

[thewatchman]

wonder what they added to the flavour of the pork? Perhaps the original smokey BBQ taste?