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The Transfiguration
cheekie3:
All -
Regarding the Transfiguration - was it all a Vision or was Jesus Christ really Transfigured.
Jesus later stated it was a Vision - But was it all a Vision.
George.
santgem:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on April 07, 2013, 06:52:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on April 07, 2013, 06:06:31 PM ---All -
Regarding the Transfiguration - was it all a Vision or was Jesus Christ really Transfigured.
Jesus later stated it was a Vision - But was it all a Vision.
George.
--- End quote ---
Since Jesus stated the Transfiguration was a vision , why would any of us want to question Him? Was Jesus confused?
Another clue that it was indeed a vision is that both Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus in the vision. There are Scriptures that say both Moses and Elijah are dead. Dead means dead. The two of them will not be alive until a future resurrection. They, along with all other Old Testament personages, and John the Baptist will not be in the 1st Resurrection. None of them had the Spirit of God within them because Jesus had not yet died and returned to the Father. No one, other than Jesus, had the Spirit of God within them until the Day of Pentecost.
--- End quote ---
Hello brother!
You said that all other Old Testament personages, John the Baptist, Moses and Elijah will not be in the 1st resurrection because Jesus had not yet died and returned to the Father.
Now,
He promised one of the criminals hanging beside Him to be with Him in the paradise and Jesus died and the criminal died but Jesus not yet returned to the Father.
You said that the Spirit of God is not within them and i say that even that criminal besides Him did not receive the Spirit of God because he died and did not wait Jesus to returned to the Father and missed the Day of Pentecost.
What about the promise of Jesus, Will he not be in the 1st resurrection??
santgem:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on April 08, 2013, 06:23:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: santgem on April 08, 2013, 01:11:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on April 07, 2013, 06:52:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on April 07, 2013, 06:06:31 PM ---All -
Regarding the Transfiguration - was it all a Vision or was Jesus Christ really Transfigured.
Jesus later stated it was a Vision - But was it all a Vision.
George.
--- End quote ---
Since Jesus stated the Transfiguration was a vision , why would any of us want to question Him? Was Jesus confused?
Another clue that it was indeed a vision is that both Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus in the vision. There are Scriptures that say both Moses and Elijah are dead. Dead means dead. The two of them will not be alive until a future resurrection. They, along with all other Old Testament personages, and John the Baptist will not be in the 1st Resurrection. None of them had the Spirit of God within them because Jesus had not yet died and returned to the Father. No one, other than Jesus, had the Spirit of God within them until the Day of Pentecost.
--- End quote ---
Hello brother!
You said that all other Old Testament personages, John the Baptist, Moses and Elijah will not be in the 1st resurrection because Jesus had not yet died and returned to the Father.
Now,
He promised one of the criminals hanging beside Him to be with Him in the paradise and Jesus died and the criminal died but Jesus not yet returned to the Father.
You said that the Spirit of God is not within them and i say that even that criminal besides Him did not receive the Spirit of God because he died and did not wait Jesus to returned to the Father and missed the Day of Pentecost.
What about the promise of Jesus, Will he not be in the 1st resurrection??
--- End quote ---
Paradise does not mean 1st Resurrection.
Here is where Ray discusses Paradise a little. See if this helps.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4646.0.html
--- End quote ---
I think if not mistaken the criminal besides Jesus will be in the 1st resurrection.
Jesus gave assurance to the criminal that He will be with him in the Paradise.
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.Rev 2:7
The tree of life is in the midst of the paradise and Jesus promised the criminal to be with Him in the paradise.
Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:14
The criminal need not to enter in through the gates in to the city because Jesus Himself will bringt the criminal in the paradise(as promised) which the tree of life is in the midst. The tree of life is Jesus, and Jesus is the life. Criminal may have the right to the tree of life which is in the midst of the garden which Jesus promised him to be with.
For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.Rev 22:15
Outside the city are dogs, sorcerers murderers, etc. these livings will be resurrected in the White throne judgment.
Kat:
Hi santgem,
The criminal on the cross beside Jesus surely died before Jesus was resurrected and not even John the Baptist will be in the kingdom, because Christ had not yet been our sacrifice.
Mat 11:11 "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Jesus Christ's sacrifice was the greatest act of love ever, but it was His resurrection by which we will receive hope of Life eonian.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
You posted this Scripture...
Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:14
Did the thief live a life dying to self and "do His commandments?" No that is a process worked out in the life of the elect, to judge themselves, "For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God" (1Pe 4:17).
Jesus promised the thief on the cross paradise, and what will this earth be when the dead are raised and Christ is ruling? Of course it will be a paradise compared to what it is now. Here is what Ray taught about "paradise."
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,979.0.html ----
DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradise to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden."
There is the mention of only two primary "gardens" in Scripture: The "tree of life" (Gen. 2:9) is found in Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:9). And what else is that Garden of Eden called? Answer: "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (Rev. 2:7).
[1] The "Garden of Eden." Was that garden, "heaven?" What did we find in that garden: (1) the knowledge of EVIL, (2) rebellion and SIN, (3) a flaming SWORD, (4) the pronouncement of CURSES, and (5) the lying SERPENT (Satan--Rev. 12:9).
[2] The "Garden of Gethsemane." Was that garden "heaven?" What did we find in that garden?
(1) The Apostles DESERTED Jesus in this garden, (2) Judas BETRAYED Jesus in this garden, (3) an army of wicked elders, scribes and chief priest with clubs and SWORDS, (4) Jesus is carried away from this garden to be CRUCIFIED, and (5) This garden contained the TOMB in which the DEAD Jesus was placed.
Do any of this evils in these two paradise gardens sound like "heaven" to you? I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43. Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God. This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does. That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD.
--------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on April 07, 2013, 06:06:31 PM ---All -
Regarding the Transfiguration - was it all a Vision or was Jesus Christ really Transfigured.
Jesus later stated it was a Vision - But was it all a Vision.
George.
--- End quote ---
Meanwhile, back on the farm... ;)
Hi, Cheekie
Maybe this will help:
You asked, Was it all a vision or was Jesus Christ really transfigured?
Here's what the verse you're referring to says:
Matthew 17:2 There he [Jesus] was transfigured [metamorphoō] before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
Definition: Transfigure (verb)
to change the outward form or appearance of; to metamorphose; to transform
especially, to change to something exalted and glorious; to give an ideal form to
glorify, spiritualize
That tells me that it was a vision, and yes Jesus was transfigured and changed form.
Vision (Strong's G3705 - horama):
1) that which is seen, spectacle
2) a sight divinely granted in an ecstasy or in a sleep, a vision
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