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Author Topic: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works  (Read 2849 times)

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gerard_dsouza

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What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« on: July 26, 2013, 07:57:15 PM »

Quote
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:13-14 AV)

Has Ray done a bible study on dead works and defined what is this dead works?
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dave

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2013, 08:49:51 PM »

This is just my opinion, but if you need to ask that question, you have not read Ray's work and if you have not read Ray's work you need to. And if you need to ask that question you have done little in reading your own Bible. This is just my opinion. No offence intended.
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gerard_dsouza

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 09:09:21 PM »

Hi Micah,
Just to simply answer your question. Yes I have nearly gone though all of his audios and a read a number of articles posts and questions and answers. I also searched the articles topics briefly and could not find that topic. Maybe I missed it.

I have done some bible studies and overall I am not satisfied with the teachings I have heard on this. Some sample opinions which make no sense to me as to why this word dead is being used as an adjective before works.
1) Some define it as Sin and disobedience of the Law.
2) Some define it as works not done out of love
3) Some define it as works not done in faith
4) Some define it as works done prior to be a Christian
_________-

It looks like these are some works which are considered dead. Why are they dead works is what I am trying to understand. I am more interested to know whether Ray taught on this topic. Alternatively, I am open to others who can shed some light.

Quote
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:13-14 AV)

It looks like its has something to do with to blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean. I am trying to understand the context.

The other scripture this word dead works shows up is:

Quote
Heb 6: 6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,  2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.  3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.

It looks like this scripture also is talking about the same topic in my opinion.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 12:46:00 AM by Gerry from Toronto »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2013, 12:45:02 AM »

Gerry, I don't mean to be flip, but the 'clear definition' of "dead works" may be:  Works that are dead. 

The question for life, I reckon, is:  Is this work dead or still alive?


To your question...I can't find any place where Ray specifically addresses the term, but I do think it's everywhere in his writing.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 12:54:25 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Nathan

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2013, 12:48:21 AM »

Quote
Hi Micah,
Just to simply answer your question. Yes I have nearly gone though all of his audios and a major chunk of the articles. I also searched the articles topics briefly and could not find that topic. Maybe I missed it.

I have done some bible studies and overall I am not satisfied with the teachings I have heard on this. Some sample opinions which make no sense to me as to why this word dead is being used as an adjective before works.
1) Some define it as Sin and disobedience of the Law.
2) Some define it as works not done out of love
3) Some define it as works not done in faith
4) Some define it as works done prior to be a Christian
_________-

It looks like these are some works which are considered dead. Why are they dead works is what I am trying to understand.
Am I asking this question in wrong area. I am more interested to know whether ray taught on this topic.

Hi Gerry,

For starters, dead is being used as an adjective because it's describing the word works which is a plural noun and the Greek word it's translated from is nekros which is an adjective.

When looking at the definition of dead (adjective) combined with the usage of the phrase "dead works" in Scripture (used twice in the book of Hebrews), I think the meaning is clear.

DEAD: Deprived of life; destitute of life; useless; unproductive; bringing no gain; unprofitable; lacking spirit; bringing death (Webster's Dictionary)

Dead works are the works of the law and they are LACKING SPIRIT ("For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death"), UNPROFITABLE ("the flesh profits nothing"), BRINGING NO GAIN ("But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness"), BRINGING DEATH ("For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death")

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Revelation 2:26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

The works of the law are dead, but by the faith of He who FULFILLED THE LAW and by the keeping of HIS WORKS unto the end, we shall overcome the world. Following after the the law of righteousness without faith is self-righteousness and yields dead works.

Romans 9:

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


If you read chapter 9 of Hebrews where "dead works" is referenced, you will see that it is the works of the law.



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microlink

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2013, 01:00:56 AM »

Hi all,

Just another thought and scripture:

Rom_9:32  Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Gal_2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Dead works are the works of the law. Like doing all the rituals and "works" demanded by the Israelites of the OT. We are not justified by works but by faith in Christ. Our desire is to be under grace and not under the law, which are dead works.
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3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

gerard_dsouza

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2013, 01:11:37 AM »

Thanks Nathan.
This makes it absolutely clear it refers to the works of the law which are redundant as they are fulfilled in Christ's sacrifices.
It is the basis of being cleansed by bulls and goats (dead and not alive) versus Christ blood cleansing (alive work).
Sometimes it is great to ask stupid and obvious questions, especially when you get a complete clarity to the topic.

So this has no application for us, as we understand only Christ blood cleansing and do not ever follow any of the sacrifices of bulls and goats blood etc.

Hi Microlink,
On the topic of Grace versus law. I think I would agree if it only refer this to certain specific laws of temple specific related including things like tithing etc. all rituals practiced when they had the Levi priesthood and Temple, temple related sacrifices. The laws of cleansing like washings and circumcision has taken on a deeper meaning of being circumcised in the heart and baptism into his death. the other form is meaningless. So these are not done away with. Overall a major part of the Law principles is alive and understood in the New Testament Epistles in a deeper way. The law is spiritual.
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Nathan

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2013, 01:15:24 AM »

Quote
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:13-14 AV)

It looks like its has something to do with to blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean. I am trying to understand the context.

The other scripture this word dead works shows up is:

Heb 6: 6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,  2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.  3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.

It looks like this scripture also is talking about the same topic in my opinion.

I think the context is fairly clear in the verses you listed, however the context is much more clear when you read it in the context of the entire chapter.

Hebrews 9 (first half of the chapter)

1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
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gerard_dsouza

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Re: What is the clear defnition of Dead Works
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2013, 01:18:49 AM »

Agreed.
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