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Author Topic: Lake of fire Book  (Read 3629 times)

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bob

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Lake of fire Book
« on: July 31, 2013, 01:10:38 PM »

I just received my copy of Ray's book from Lulu press. I am very pleased with the size and print. The book is eight and one half inches by eleven inches. It has printed on the back cover " This book is provided as a service to those who want to receive the Lake of Fire in book form. Absolutely no income is made by L Ray Smith or by anyone having anything to do with Bible-Truths.com. The cost to you is only what the publisher charges to provide you the service of printing this book" The cost with shipping came to 22.61 with shipping to Fla. Ordered July 25 received book July 31. I have not checked it out yet for any discrepancies with the web site printing but it appears to be the same. I have this printed ( one side only) from the web site in a binder, but this is so much better. Thanks to the person who asked about this.   I would have purchased this had I known before doing all the printing myself. Bob :)
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se7en

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 02:36:02 PM »

Outstanding!  I'll be ordering mine soon.

Bob, on the front cover. Does it look exactly what the website displays it as? Red background with white letters?

thanks!
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 03:26:04 PM »

I have been a certified public accountant for over 35 years,  I have seen it all.  I know business, businessmen, and human nature.

Lulu Press is making a profit selling this book.  That's what businesses do.  They sell things at a profit to make money, or they go out of business.  They do not sell things out of the goodness of their heart.

What will be, will be.  I just don't like it when people are deceived in thinking that there is no profit being made from selling these truths.
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Craig

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2013, 03:44:48 PM »

Come on John.  The bibletruths website and forum resides on a webserver, the business hosting this service is making a profit.  Ray typed his studies on a computer and posted it to the website.  The electric company made a profit and his internet service provider made a profit. Those who view the website do so through their internet service provider, who make a profit.  If you download and print the material yourself, the ink, paper and electric company makes a profit.

You are a bright individual and I am sure you see the difference, why are you digging in your heels over this???

Craig
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 04:14:09 PM by Craig »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2013, 04:24:19 PM »

Come on John.  The bibletruths website and forum resides on a webserver, the business hosting this service is making a profit.  Ray typed his studies on a computer and posted it to the website.  The electric company made a profit and his internet service provider made a profit. Those who view the website do so through there internet service provider, who make a profit.  If you download and print the material yourself, the ink and paper company makes a profit.

You are a bright individual and I am sure you see the difference, why are you digging in your heels over this???

Craig

Craig,

What the World and its business enterprises do---they do.

The Church of the Living God is held to the highest standards-----the standards of Jesus.

Jesus said, "Freely you received, freely give" and "It is more blessed to give than receive."

Lulu Press making a profit causes a twinge in the spirit.

John
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Craig

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2013, 04:36:23 PM »

Does the internet service provider that you use to access the forum cause a twinge? :-\

You are very learned, does the publishers that you purchased your bibles from, who make a profit cause a twinge?

If nobody made a profit printing bibles, do you think you would be able to own a bible?

That is all I'm asking, I see no difference.  To each his own.
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Arion

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 04:47:07 PM »

John;

Your really straining at a gnat here.  There is a big difference between various so called 'ministries' selling there religious junk and telling you that you should give them your tithes and offerings and that you really need to plant a seed of faith, ect while they are driving in high end automobiles and living in luxury.

Charging $14 to cover the cost of printing the volume and another $6 for S&H is beyond reasonable.  Heck, I printed the whole series out several years ago and by the time I paid for binders, computer paper and ink I spent considerably more than $20.  Charging basically 'cost' to cover expenses is freely you have received so freely give.  Unless you expect others to pay out of their pocket so you can receive what you expect to be free?  Somebody always pays the bill for stuff.  Heck, some people right now are paying the bill for you and others to receive what we get from this website.  If everyone felt the way you do right now there would be no bibletruths website.
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Kat

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2013, 07:40:28 PM »


John, the way I understand it is that Lulu only charges a fee on book that earn royalties (virtually all books do), but for the exceptional few that do not they do not charge a fee. So only the Manufacturing cost + shipping and handling is charged, their cost to get it to you. I think that is exceptional of them, certainly inspired by God, so there is nothing extra is earned by anybody.

Kat
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indianabob

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 10:24:24 PM »

Hi John,

I think that I referred to this issue previously in this subject thread, but once again referencing the Apostle Paul's statement it is obvious that L.Ray lawfully earned and was entitled to make a living wage from his part in God's work in order to care for his family. 1 Timothy 5:8
It takes energy and focus and dedication to do the work of God and each of us is entitled to benefit from God's work in a reasonable way. However Paul declined to charge his listeners, his faith family and worked with his hands to feed himself, not by compulsion but so that no one could bad mouth the work of God, even in error.

This may be a great topic to pursue further when time permits and on a different thread.

Thanks for considering my comment, Indiana Bob
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Nathan

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 11:18:42 PM »

I just got the book in the mail today. I paid $17.61 with shipping (the cheapest shipping they had) and I received the book in 6 business days. Like Bob said, it's a large book with large font - easy to read and much better than a binder full of printed pages.

Quote
Lulu Press is making a profit selling this book.  That's what businesses do.  They sell things at a profit to make money, or they go out of business.  They do not sell things out of the goodness of their heart. What will be, will be.  I just don't like it when people are deceived in thinking that there is no profit being made from selling these truths.

What the World and its business enterprises do---they do. The Church of the Living God is held to the highest standards-----the standards of Jesus. Jesus said, "Freely you received, freely give" and "It is more blessed to give than receive." Lulu Press making a profit causes a twinge in the spirit.

John

I fail to see the issue with the disclaimer on the back: "This book is provided as a service to those who want to receive the Lake of Fire in book form. Absolutely no income is made by L Ray Smith or by anyone having anything to do with Bible-Truths.com. The cost to you is only what the publisher charges to provide you the service of printing this book."

(1) The disclaimer makes it clear that neither Ray or anyone affiliated with BT is making a profit (2) Lulu is not saying that they are shipping this at cost - meaning they make no profit. They are saying that the cost is what the publisher charges to provide the SERVICE of printing the book - this includes a profit - they're a business. (3) "Freely you give, freely you receive" is why Ray and BT aren't seeking to make a profit on this. Lulu is not bound by this as they are a private business, not a part of the church of the Living God and not the author of the material.

John, I could see you taking exception to this if BT was trying to make a buck off of this book, but a third party publisher shouldn't cause a twinge in the spirit. They're actually doing us a valuable service.

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rumpelstiltskin

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2013, 05:56:42 AM »

Almost the same size and binding as my Young's literal. :)
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If you want to know what God thinks of money,just look at the people he gave it to
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bob

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2013, 06:13:29 AM »

se7en
The book is just like the picture shown on the wed site. The cover print has more of a yellow look to them than white.   It is larger than thought it would be, which for me is good as It's getting harder for me to read small print. Bob   
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2013, 07:22:55 AM »

Hi John,

I think that I referred to this issue previously in this subject thread, but once again referencing the Apostle Paul's statement it is obvious that L.Ray lawfully earned and was entitled to make a living wage from his part in God's work in order to care for his family. 1 Timothy 5:8
It takes energy and focus and dedication to do the work of God and each of us is entitled to benefit from God's work in a reasonable way. However Paul declined to charge his listeners, his faith family and worked with his hands to feed himself, not by compulsion but so that no one could bad mouth the work of God, even in error.

This may be a great topic to pursue further when time permits and on a different thread.

Thanks for considering my comment, Indiana Bob

I am the only person allowed to write checks and I assure you Ray did not earn a living from bible-truths contributions. We helped with his cable and other utilities but that's all.

The last few years of his life there were a handful of people who helped with his alternative medical bills but I would not call that earning a living. Without that help they would have been in big financial trouble. And IMO without alternative medicine Ray would have died years sooner.

Just want to clear that up Indiana Bob.
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indianabob

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 11:04:03 AM »

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for the explanation.
I was aware of that situation and thank you for all that you all did for this work of God.
Others who were aware of Ray's situation also helped. I also understand that Ray followed the example of the apostle Paul in working with his hands to support his family and not even asking for his earnings in God's work.

My intention was to demonstrate that "teachers" are approved by holy scripture and they are entitled to compensation. Giving away the truth is fine, we should not hide it or hoard it, but we all have needs and have to eat and live and care for our legitimate family. The Bible explains in detail that God wishes a reasonable prosperity to all those through whom God works. To think that God wants His servants to be poor or to never receive a wage for doing HIS work is the wrong lesson for the forum members to embrace. And most don't...

In God's work with the Jewish nation, Israel, the priestly class were given a tenth of ALL the blessings that God provided to the 12 tribes of Israel. Of course we don't teach tithing any longer, but that does not prohibit generous offerings to God's servants, offerings inspired by God's spirit in each of us.

Thanks for the explanation and any correction that I needed. Indiana Bob
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Extol

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2013, 11:12:31 AM »

Some here think Lulu is not making a profit on this. JFK thinks Lulu is making a profit.

But this is an issue which has little to do with L. Ray Smith or the truths he has taught us. Whether or not Lulu is making a profit should not concern us. "Buy the truth and do not sell it..."(Prov. 23:23).
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indianabob

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2013, 11:54:01 AM »

AND that is the truth,
Thanks Extol  ;D
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Craig

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2013, 12:02:44 PM »

Quote
Some here think Lulu is not making a profit on this. JFK thinks Lulu is making a profit.

Of course LuLu is making a profit, it is a business.  They are recouping their printing costs, wages, overhead, etc and making a profit.  But they are not taking a cut of royalties because there is none, and nobody associated with Bible Truths makes a penny. LuLu is no different than any company that prints a bible or any other book that is free in the public domain.
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Addison

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2013, 05:02:21 PM »

Some here think Lulu is not making a profit on this. JFK thinks Lulu is making a profit.

But this is an issue which has little to do with L. Ray Smith or the truths he has taught us. Whether or not Lulu is making a profit should not concern us. "Buy the truth and do not sell it..."(Prov. 23:23).

I think Jesse put it best.

I also ordered the book a few days ago. It is supposed to come between today or the next few days and I am really excited about it. To be honest I wish Ray didn't have such a problem with selling his books in printed format. As long as he has his books available to read for FREE on his website, I don't see the big deal. I don't like reading long articles on my computer screen (it's really not good for you to look at a computer screen for that long) and I am a big fan of reading printed books.

For anyone who might be interested in purchasing one of your own, here is the link http://www.lulu.com/shop/l-ray-smith/the-lake-of-fire/paperback/product-12469615.html

And if someone genuinely can't afford to purchase one I would gladly buy it for you, just send me a PM.

Addison

« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 05:09:41 PM by Addison »
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gerard_dsouza

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2013, 12:18:49 AM »

Thank God that Bible-Truths has no paid workers. That is so much more blessed.

Having said that, if there is a cost for purchases of books or material, we should charge for that and not offer it free to those who can pay. Those who cannot pay, should be offered free.

I seen people say that they offer all their material free and then they place a offering link at the place where they can order freely. Very subtle, but what does that mean and does that not force people to give?
Any thoughts on this.
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Nathan

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Re: Lake of fire Book
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2013, 03:57:45 PM »

Quote
Thank God that Bible-Truths has no paid workers. That is so much more blessed.

Having said that, if there is a cost for purchases of books or material, we should charge for that and not offer it free to those who can pay. Those who cannot pay, should be offered free.

I seen people say that they offer all their material free and then they place a offering link at the place where they can order freely. Very subtle, but what does that mean and does that not force people to give?
Any thoughts on this.

Gerry, Ray mentioned the "offering link" topic in one of his audio's. Apparently, there was a time when BT did have a link on the main page where people could give to the ministry via PayPal. If I recall correctly, Ray said that they would get less than $100 per month on average. He told Dennis to get rid of the link altogether - if people wanted to give to the ministry, they would have to seek it out on their own. Apparently, people started to give much more after that.

The problem with an offering link with a disclaimer saying, "if you can afford it, click here and make a donation, if not, we'll send it to you free" is:
(1) A lot of ministries do this, but those same ministries don't typically already offer the material on their site for free - The LOF series is already available for free, albeit not in book form.
(2) It can come across as some kind of ploy and I think many people are suspicious of the hidden motives of the many charlatans out there (and rightly so).
(3) When you say "if there is a cost for purchases of books or materials we should charge for that and not offer it free to those who can pay. Those who cannot pay, should be offered free. " --- Those who can pay, can simply go to Lulu and order it. All those who cannot pay, can simply send a PM to Addison and he'll pick up the tab. 8)

Seriously, though, I think it would be up to us individually to pay for the book for those who can't afford it. I think the fact that everything is free at BT and there are no "give here" links, no matter how subtle or what the intentions are, exemplifies everything meant by "freely you received, freely give".
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