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Author Topic: churches  (Read 3492 times)

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ez2u

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churches
« on: August 07, 2013, 10:23:12 AM »

well we just came from our 3rd church service, last Sunday,  I had to walk out and would not take communion with them.  I guess you all are wondering why we are looking?  Well we are very lonely for fellowship.  So far there is none.  I don't want to begin to tell you the lie's and distortions that both my husband and i hear from the pulpit.  It seems to be getting worst.
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onelovedread

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Re: churches
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 12:53:23 PM »

ez2u
I was one of the last hold-outs on this forum, who refused to stop attending a church.
I remember Rene and others advising me to leave but I stood firm for a pretty long time. :D
Up until about a year ago, I was still going every week to "my church" but it got to the stage that I had to leave.
I was becoming more and more frustrated and disillusioned by the difference in their beliefs and ours, and the erroneous stuff they were preaching.
But I still didn't leave because of the close relationships I enjoyed with some of the brethren.
I finally did and guess how many keep in touch even by text or phone? Yeah, none. Hahaha.
I guess they must be p'd.

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gerard_dsouza

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Re: churches
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 01:33:16 PM »

ez2u,
Let me share how I look at attending churches, maybe it will help.
Whenever I attend a church and hear something, I ask myself can I not get up from my seat and speak up that this is a lie.
I left the Catholic church after speaking out at them and what was wrong there. They told me to go away and not share such stuff or else I will be asked to leave by the Nuns. This was when I was mixing with some young adults when I just got converted at age 22. Going to Catholic church and also a Charismatic non Catholic non denominational church.
Similar end took place when I started questioning the Pastor of the non denominational church and started to share new things I learnt from God's word and finally it ended with meeting in home groups. I left that church also, as I was isolated and finally had my own group meeting sharing leadership with a brother. Very difficult to lead a home group, because I had my home as a meeting place and also I had to share in meeting every week and sometimes twice a week. And all I shared was open to question and criticism and I could not run away from all that. So at a age 27 I was already leading a group and stopped at age 33/34 or so. Since then for about 3 to 5 years not on a regular basis, I went to many churches and the experience of going there was just too much for me. I always wanted to speak up at them and could never do that without creation confusion and disturbance. So finally when I understood that God could save all mankind, that was the doctrine that placed a wedge into all the doctrines the churches believed. Before I would pick on doctrine like how the leadership is to be run. That the church should not tithe and what is the church etc.
Once you have something that they will never accept you, that makes it so simple, and they will just throw you out. I am very confrontational and like getting into the real deal, no playing around. I want the real deal and nothing less. Don't care it they throw me out. I want real fellowship and reality.
I stop here. I guess I shared very strongly here. Sorry about this.
Gerry
 
 
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: churches
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 02:00:39 PM »

You want fellowship, join a theater group or a volunteer organization.  The last place you will find "spiritual" fellowship is a church, and it's also not always a good place to find "soulish" fellowship.

I told my mother so she could understand it:  I don't go to bars, and I don't go to church.

If the bar is not too bad, I'd rather go to it, if I MUST choose.  I'll likely go to church again, but not for 'fellowship'.

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

gerard_dsouza

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Re: churches
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2013, 02:06:42 PM »

Thanks Dave, I feel spiritual fellowship here. Don't need a soulish fellowship one at all.
I prefer the unbelievers to soulish fellowship any time. Then again, soulish fellowship is good opportunity to shake them up a bit and make them think.
 
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loretta

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Re: churches
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 02:43:52 PM »

I quit the catholic church, the new testament church, house church, home church, prayer meetings, crusades, healing meetings and more recently fellowship with believers, etc etc.  I was so relaxed that I thought I had backslidden! ( ever heard this word - coined by the church?)

Recently I was listening to Ray's teaching on the Sabbath http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBrx7jXxw7g and suddenly I realized that what I was enjoying was the sabbath rest!

What is fellowship anyway, but sharing the truths that are on your heart, being equally yoked.  And if you can't share it, what sort of fellowship is it?  Better to join a theatre group or volunteer organisation, as Dave said.

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Rhys

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Re: churches
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 05:27:17 PM »

We have true fellowship with the Lord, that's where I find peace and I'm not alone or lonely. Being in the place that sets you free is the best place to be and I haven't found that in any church that I have attended and have been to plenty.

Find you place in Him and you will be at rest - the search is over

Rhys
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I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

gerard_dsouza

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Re: churches
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 07:15:09 PM »

Hi Rhys,
That is a great revelation, and this only comes when one passes through all the tribulation the Lord brings our way in the churches. The Lord Jesus and the Father is the only fellowship we can be at rest with and find comfort.
I do find fellowship with believers never in churches, all live in a wilderness (meaning in no church and by themselves and do not feel part of any church).

It does not mean one does not go to any church congregation if invited for some social reason or some event like baptism in a Catholic church invited by relatives. I do not feel this offensive in any sense. As I look at the fact that God does not show them the truth and I want to be grateful to the Lord and kind to them.
Gerry
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se7en

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Re: churches
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 01:19:23 AM »

ez2u,

What you are experiencing is all to recently familiar for me and my family. I had to tell my wife I couldn't go anymore. She soon quit the church as well but not because of what I believed but because she didn't get anything from the church.

For me, fellowshiping  on the forums and sharing Truth in our lives with each other helps me tremendously. It would be nice to have a physical neck to hug, however the next best thing would be skype or video chat.

We truly are a scattered bunch all over the globe!

Mat 26:41 Then Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away because of me this night. For it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered."
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loretta

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Re: churches
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 04:43:52 AM »

Quote
It does not mean one does not go to any church congregation if invited for some social reason or some event like baptism in a Catholic church invited by relatives. I do not feel this offensive in any sense. As I look at the fact that God does not show them the truth and I want to be grateful to the Lord and kind to them.

Going to church congregation to attend social events does not in any way constitute the fellowship we're talking about.  Having said that, is it really ok to attend child baptisms, first communions, especially in the catholic church?  Never mind the church ceremony, what about the 'celebrations' afterwards, which day by day are getting more ostentatious - just like weddings, if you pls. 

This was the biggest issue I had to face after coming out of the catholic church, having friends, family and neighbors still there.  For a time, although I didn't go to the church, I continued attending the 'celebrations' with a view to keeping the relationship (albeit, for a selfish motive of evangelising!) with a servant heart (helping with the food and service), but I soon gave it up as my spirit was not at peace. The question that bothers me is, what are we celebrating?  the sacraments that promise salvation?  are we encouraging error, rather than pointing to the truth?  Aren't we called to be separate, a holy people, exhorted to come out of these babylonian systems?  Aren't there other social functions that we can freely attend, to extend our love to these blinded people?  And so many other practical ways to be kind to them?  Now that I know that these people are blinded by God, do I condone the error?  Will it amount to being unequally yoked?

What I do know is that in the years since I have truly come out of her, I have become a better wife, mother, daughter, sister, friend, neighbor and a citizen. And I have not lost a single friend or relationship, except the ones that had to go.  On the contrary, people know that they can count on me in good times and bad, which is harder still than attending these 'celebrations'.
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Nathan

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Re: churches
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2013, 06:16:59 PM »

Quote
well we just came from our 3rd church service, last Sunday,  I had to walk out and would not take communion with them.  I guess you all are wondering why we are looking?  Well we are very lonely for fellowship.  So far there is none.  I don't want to begin to tell you the lie's and distortions that both my husband and i hear from the pulpit.  It seems to be getting worst.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (2 Cor 6:14)

You will never find fellowship with unbelievers. If you entered the building where you congregated last and saw a sign above the front door that read, "The Synagogue of Satan" or "Daughter of the Harlot", would you walk inside?

I'd rather fellowship with the "few" online than with the "many" in-person.



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cjwood

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Re: churches
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2013, 10:46:39 PM »

awesome reply nathan...spiritual truth to a T.

claudia
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loretta

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Re: churches
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2013, 02:27:36 PM »

Quote
You will never find fellowship with unbelievers. If you entered the building where you congregated last and saw a sign above the front door that read, "The Synagogue of Satan" or "Daughter of the Harlot", would you walk inside?

 :) :) :)
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loretta

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Re: churches
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2013, 10:53:24 AM »

Talking about worshipping in spirit and truth. WOW, Ray really does nail it here! :)

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLING OF OURSELVES TOGETHER

In Hebrews 10:25 were are admonished as follows:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching."

That this is speaking of believers congregating together to worship and study God’s Word, there can be no doubt. However, there is a much deeper meaning to this "assembling" that few have ever seen. I never saw it myself until I read a paper by J. Preston Eby, entitled: "FORSAKE NOT THE ASSEMBLING."

I will quote an excerpt or two from his paper:

"The Greek word for ‘assembling’ is EPISUNAGOGE. The word, literally, is a verb meaning to synagogue. It is a compound of the Greek prefix EPI with the word SUNAGOGE from which we get our transliterated English word Synagogue. EPI means super – imposition – that which is above, higher than, highest, upon. SUNAGOGE means a meeting, assembly, or gathering. Putting these two words together, EPI-SUNAGOGE means THE ABOVE SYNAGOGUE, THE HIGHER MEETING, THE HIGHEST ASSEMBLY, THE HIGHER-THAN-ALL-GATHERINGS!

It bespeaks of something far greater than merely collecting so many breathing bodies together in one place.

It is a meeting in a higher realm, on a higher plane, in the high places of the Spirit, and in the heights of Truth. It is a gathering together in a dimension above. It indicates an assembling IN THE SPIRIT…"

(All Caps belong to Mr. Eby).

This Greek word episunagoge is used only one other time in Scripture, and that is in II Thes. 2:1:

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together [Gk: episunagoge] unto Him."

In Hebrews 10 we are admonished to "assemble" in an high meeting, a meeting in the SPIRIT! In II Thes. 2 this meeting in the Spirit will become a literal meeting with our Lord.

And so, back to our question once more: Which denomination should we join? Where should we go to Church? Where should we "forsake not the assembling of ourselves together?" In a physical building of some physical denomination? No. WE are to episunagoge (assemble) on a higher plane, in a higher realm, in a spiritual assembly, IN THE SPIRIT!

This is not something new. This is exactly what Jesus Christ taught regarding where and how we are to (go to church) worship God.

"The woman said unto Him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye [all the Jews] say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe Me, the hour comes, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour comes, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH: for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is Spirit: and they that worship Him MUST worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH" (John 4:19:24).

We have got to get out of the depths of Satan if we are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. The Church is filled with the depths of Satan. That is not the place to go to worship God in spirit and truth. Did Jesus go to the synagogues to worship His God?

"And when He [Jesus] had sent the multitudes away, He went up into a mountain apart [Gk: ‘by Himself’] to pray: and when the evening was come, He was there alone" (Matt. 14:23).

Amazing, isn’t it. Jesus "assembled [Gk: episunagoge]" with His Father BY HIMSELF, ALONE. We can do the same. Not just on Sunday morning or Wednesday evening, with a crowd, in a building, but on every day of the week, and we can do it while we are ALONE.

How often church buildings and temples are referred to as "The House of God." This is nonsense. God does NOT dwell in houses, buildings, churches, or temples made with hands.

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwells NOT in temples made with hands."

And

"Howbeit the Most High dwells NOT in temples made with hands" (Acts 17:24 & 7:48).

How often Jerusalem is called, "The Holy City." People want to visit Jerusalem because they think it is HOLY GROUND. There is nothing holy about it. Constantly Satan’s ministers refer to Jerusalem as the Holy City, and how we should pray for "the peace of Jerusalem." Let me assure you that all of those prayers are going to go unanswered because, "…for the son of the bondwoman [Jerusalem that now is--under bondage] shall not be heir with the son of the free woman [Jerusalem which is above and free]" (Gal. 4:30b).

Ray fittingly closes his paper with these words,

We are not asked by God to "leave His Church," but rather to move from the carnal Jerusalem church under bondage to the spiritual Jerusalem church which is free. We certainly make every effort to fellowship with believers of like mind, but let us never forget where our true fellowship is.

"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ" (I John 1:3).

And we fellowship with God by assembling ourselves in the HIGHEST assembly, in a spiritual, heavenly assembly:

"But we are come unto [heavenly] mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect and to Jesus the mediator of the NEW COVENANT, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel" (Heb. 12:22-24).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 11:09:52 AM by loretta »
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se7en

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Re: churches
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2013, 02:09:03 PM »

loretta thank you so much for posting that! So beautiful to see the Truth of God!!!
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ez2u

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Re: churches
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2013, 01:41:46 PM »

wow a lot of response here and a lot of feelings that come from that response.  I have never really attended a church for any worthy amount of time.  so i have not had your experiences.  My life is not yours either and I need christian fellowship, online doesn't work as what has been stated here in your opinions. as i tried to reach out and talk about this and got all negative response.  I love bible forum  right now i need a friend a close friend.  you must understand who did Ray met with every week for a while a friend.
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Nathan

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Re: churches
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2013, 03:31:23 PM »

Quote
wow a lot of response here and a lot of feelings that come from that response.  I have never really attended a church for any worthy amount of time.  so i have not had your experiences.  My life is not yours either and I need christian fellowship, online doesn't work as what has been stated here in your opinions. as i tried to reach out and talk about this and got all negative response.  I love bible forum  right now i need a friend a close friend.  you must understand who did Ray met with every week for a while a friend.

ez2u,

I understand your need for face-to-face Christian fellowship or friendship and I'm sure many here at the forum understand what you are going through. I've been fellowshipping online with like-minded believers for the past 5 years and there have been many times I wished I could have talked face-to-face with brothers and sisters instead of over a computer. You said you tried to reach out and talk about this [via your original post] and got all negative responses [from the forum members who responded]. This is your original post:

Quote
well we just came from our 3rd church service, last Sunday,  I had to walk out and would not take communion with them.  I guess you all are wondering why we are looking?  Well we are very lonely for fellowship.  So far there is none.  I don't want to begin to tell you the lie's and distortions that both my husband and i hear from the pulpit.  It seems to be getting worst.

You stated you had to walk out and you would not take communion with them; you are looking for fellowship, but there is none; you mention all of the lies and distortions that both you and your husband hear from the pulpit; you say it seems to be getting worse.

Am I missing something here? It is clear that you will never find what you are looking for in the "church". All of the responses you got from other forum members have simply confirmed what you already KNOW based on your own experience.

The strait and narrow path can be very lonely at times.
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ez2u

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Re: churches
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2013, 09:00:53 PM »

yes John  they do thank you
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loretta

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Re: churches
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2013, 03:29:53 AM »

ez2u,

Don't for a moment think that we are condemning you for seeking Christian fellowship in the churches you've visited.  What we are trying to say is that it's ok if you do not find fellowship at all; we've all been there, done that...  God knows how we all long for true Christian fellowship and how we would trade in the forum for such.  Yes, online fellowship is limited in its way, but for the moment it meets a need.

Jesus spoke about counting the cost of following him.  Loneliness is one of them.  Like you, I've  not had fellowship for an extended amount of time.  I too felt real lonely till I encountered the persecuted church.  Believe me, I wouldn't trade places with them.  Just this morning I was reading about Farshid Fathi, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ixi9OlXMI a young Iranian father of two, serving time for his faith at the notorious Evin prison, who describes in a letter, the condition of his heart during a very lonely time.  He says,

Often I have been sorrowful because of certain things, but I have never been a slave of sadness. Often I have been insulted, humiliated and accused, but I have never doubted my identity in Christ. Some have deserted me, some have fled from me; in no way do I pass judgment on them. My Lord has never left me.  “…What really matters is I am my Beloved’s and my Beloved is mine. This possibly is the sweetest truth of my life that I am His and He is mine.”

And there are scores of others like him. 

Many others will attest to the fact that like prison, marriage and singleness can be a very lonely place too.  As Christians, we deal with this loneliness by giving of ourselves to others.  Likewise in our Christian walk, pouring ourselves in sacrificial service and true love will bring people into our lives that will radically alter the way we view ourselves and our situations.  You may not be able to talk about the truths of God, but you can flesh it out in your daily interactions with people. 

And that too is very fulfilling.

According to Elam Ministries, Farshid is a shining beacon for Christ in Evin, so much so that the son of an Iranian ayatollah commented on Farshid's sweet nature in a YouTube video. The two shared a cell. The man remarked on how beloved Farshid is among the inmates. Elam described Farshid as "a man after God's own heart." 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 07:18:20 AM by loretta »
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thewatchman

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Re: churches
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2013, 10:58:33 PM »

If I can make a suggestion...perhaps you could look at a home church. Start one up yourself. There are a number of organisations that have start up materials online. Just google house church or home church. Some run a small course, but the rest is up to you. A different dynamic than a normal church.

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