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Author Topic: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine  (Read 3107 times)

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tatiana777

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"The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« on: August 09, 2013, 01:23:32 AM »

Last night I had a phone conversation with my friend, who is a Baptist pastor. I asked him about the doctrine of "Immortal" soul , how can believers go to Heaven and non believer to Hell after their death in contradiction to what God says about death  ....

He pointed me to this scripture : "And whosoever lives and believes in Me shall NEVER DIE. Believe you this?" (John 11:26.) . 

Today I emailed him Ray's paper THE ORIGIN OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT, and asked him prayerfully read entire The Lake of Fire series.

I also emailed to him this historical account I found yesterday:

"On December 19, 1513, in connection with the eighth session of the fifth Lateran Council, Pope Leo X issued a Bull (Apostolici regimis) declaring, ‚We do condemn and reprobate all who assert that the intelligent soul is mortal. (Damnamus et reprobamus omnes assertentes animam intellectivam mortalem esse). This was directed against the growing “heresy” of those who denied the natural immortality of the soul, and avowed the conditional immortality of man. The Bull also decreed that ‚all who adhere to the like erroneous assertions shall be shunned and punished as heretics.. The decrees of this Council, it should be noted, were all issued in the form of Bulls or constitutions.

Pope LEO X 1513-1521; LATERAN COUNCIL V 1512-15172

‚"Since in our days (and we painfully bring this up) the sower of cockle, ancient enemy of the human race, has dared to disseminate and advance in the field of the Lord a number of pernicious errors, always rejected by the faithful, especially concerning the nature of the rational soul, namely, that it is mortal, or one in all men, and some rashly philosophizing affirmed that this is true at least according to philosophy, in our desire to offer suitable remedies against a plague of this kind, with the approval of this holy Council, we condemn and reject all who assert that the intellectual soul is mortal, or is one in all men, and those who cast doubt on these truths, since it [the soul] is not only truly in itself and essentially the form of the human body, as was defined in the canon of Pope CLEMENT V our predecessor of happy memory published in the (general) Council of VIENNE but it is also multiple according to the multitude of bodies into which it is infused, multiplied, and to be multiplied. And since truth never contradicts truth, we declare every assertion contrary to the truth of illumined faith to be altogether false; and, that it may not be permitted to dogmatize otherwise, we strictly forbid it, and we decree that all who adhere to errors of this kind are to be shunned and to be punished as detestable and abominable infidels who disseminate most damnable heresies and who weaken the Catholic faith.."

In 1516, Pietro Pomponatius of Mantua, noted Italian professor and leader among the Averrorists (who denied the immortality of the soul), issued a book in opposition to this position called Treatise on the Immortality of the Soul. This was widely read, especially in the Italian universities. As a result, he was hauled before the Inquisition, and his book publicly burned in Venice...

After sending my email, I found these:

From the Westminster Confession of Faith:
CHAPTER XXXII.


Of the State of Man After Death,
and of the Resurrection of the Dead.

I. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption; but their souls (which neither die nor sleep), having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them. The souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day. Besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.

From Baptist  Confession on Life After Death and the Resurrection

The Intermediate State (31.1)


The term “intermediate” underscores two facts about the condition described in this paragraph: (1) this state immediately follows death, and (2) this state is intermediate not final.

The bodies of men after death return to dust, and see corruption;[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them.[2] The souls of the righteous being then made perfect in holiness, are received into paradise [‘the highest heavens,’ WCF], where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies;[3] and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day;[4] besides these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none."


Both Calvinist and Baptists and other Reformers of different names  call  Roman Catholic Church  The Great Whore, but have RCC's Babylonian/Pagan doctrine of Immortal souls and Eternal Hell in their confessions of Faith and preach it from their pulpits...

I never thought about this before the way I do now..hard to explain....I feel like I am in a Twilight zone  :'(

Just wanted to share this with you...
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2013, 02:54:15 AM »

Thanks for that.  As Ray said, there is little difference between the RCC and protestants in these important matters.  The Great Whore has many daughters.

How does it feel to be an abominable infidel?

As for your pastor friend:  He'll have to understand several things before he can let go of his contradictory understanding.  IF he replies, you might send him http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm .





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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dennis Vogel

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2013, 10:55:05 AM »

Inaccurate translation:

(CLV) And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?

(Rotherham) And, no one who liveth again and believeth on me, shall in anywise die, unto times age-abiding. Believest thou this?
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se7en

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2013, 05:55:43 PM »

Thank you Tatiana! Excellent stuff.

I too feel like I live in the Matrix.
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~Se7en

tatiana777

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2013, 11:56:01 PM »

Thanks for that.  As Ray said, there is little difference between the RCC and protestants in these important matters.  The Great Whore has many daughters.

How does it feel to be an abominable infidel?

As for your pastor friend:  He'll have to understand several things before he can let go of his contradictory understanding.  IF he replies, you might send him http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm .

Thank you Dave.  I emailed him the article you posted as a P.M

Inaccurate translation:

(CLV) And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?

(Rotherham) And, no one who liveth again and believeth on me, shall in anywise die, unto times age-abiding. Believest thou this?


Yes it is, that's why I emailed Ray's article to him where Ray specifically talks about this verse

Thank you Tatiana! Excellent stuff.

I too feel like I live in the Matrix.

Yes se7ven, Matrix is the word lol
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2013, 02:14:17 AM »

Cool.  Let us know what happens.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

tatiana777

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 08:06:23 PM »

Cool.  Let us know what happens.


I will. It will take him a while to go through all the material I sent him.

I am talking to my other Christian friends, one of them after reading Ray's articles and listening to his teaching "Despising God's Word" said to me that it changed her life.. She could never reconcile in her mind that our Father who is Love can punish his children for all eternity .

Today I asked my 17 Years Old son a question: If we believe that we have a Sovereign Creator, who knows the end from the beginning and tells us of what will happen before it actually happens, do we humans have a free will?

It did not take him a second to answer he said - "of course not, we only think we do " . I told him that he should become a theologian because most of them still don't know this simple truth  ;)
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loretta

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2013, 01:19:36 AM »

Tks Tatiana, that was very encouraging.
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onelovedread

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2013, 12:01:59 PM »

Most of them still don't believe this simple truth ( Man doesn't have free will), because the Sovereign Creator wills it to be so. Ay caramba! ;D
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se7en

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Re: "The natural immortality of the soul" doctrine
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 02:59:48 PM »

Tatiana,

I believe your son has been given eyes to see and ears to hear!  I was locked into the christian church system belieivng I was a two or three point calvanist for over 15 years, bind as a bat!!!!

If God gave me the ability to have a free will, without cause, to do whatever I wanted, then how could he know what I was going to do! I just couldn't see that while deep in babylon.

Persephone in Matrix Reloaded.. "Cause and effect my love... cause and effect, have fun."
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~Se7en
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